Mook Jong Form

[sokonmatsumura]

I have a question regarding the application of some technique in the wooden dummy form. About 2 min and thirty seconds in. Could someone explain to me what is going on exactly?

 

[yak sao]

I will answer your question with another video....a picture is worth a thousand words right?

He demo's the movements against a live opponent toward the end of the video.

http://youtu.be/EfLNUEFyeso

 

[sokonmatsumura]

Are the techniques themselves similar to a snake slithering around the opponent's arms? Sticking to them and finding a possible path? Then grabbing a hold of the them you strike with the other?

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

Are the techniques themselves similar to a snake slithering around the opponent's arms? Sticking to them and finding a possible path? Then grabbing a hold of the them you strike with the other?

You can use it to achieve an "under hook" in grappling. If you reverse it, you can use it to achieve an "over hook" or "arm wrap" too. The human arms can be used as the octopus arms that wrap on anything it touched.

 

[mook jong man]

I have a question regarding the application of some technique in the wooden dummy form. About 2 min and thirty seconds in. Could someone explain to me what is going on exactly?

I used to train with that bloke.
Are you talking about the bit with the pivoting after the double Tok Sau's.

If you end up with both your arms on the outside of your opponents arms you can snake one hand on to the inside as you pivot and strike him in the neck with your other hand.
Depending on how tense they are it displaces both their arms and puts them off balance.

 

[Danny T]

Remember always wing chun is a principle and concept based system.
Therefore there are numerous possible applications with-in the different movements, positions, and postures.
The dummy arms can be a right or left or both can represent one arm. The arms could be from wrist to elbow or elbow to shoulder. When using the both arms as one, one arm could be wrist to elbow the other could be elbow to shoulder. I also am of the opinion that the more you see something within the forms the more important it is and when it is performed multiple times in sequence it is even more important in that there are multiple possible uses. Don't compartmentalize the actions as specific techniques or applications. Stay open to multiple options. The rolling action of the arms could be as Mook stated, could be an arm break, could be just moving the arm off line.

 

[geezer]

I also am of the opinion that the more you see something within the forms the more important it is and when it is performed multiple times in sequence it is even more important in that there are multiple possible uses ...Stay open to multiple options.

If its in the forms even once, it's important. If it's there multiple times ...it's really importantant. Good things are worth repeating ...like the quote above.

 

[PiedmontChun]

I enjoyed the explanations of this. I'm a novice but had seen a video once of this particular movement on the dummy and then a demonstrated application: the WC practicioner employed the snaking movement to break the double arm hold of the assailant that had gripped is jacket with both hands. It looked cool and all but hardly seemed efficient. After all it seems more simple to just strike / punch if you have use of both hands and the attacker does not since they are latched onto your clothing right? I figured there had to be more to it than that.

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

the WC practicioner employed the snaking movement to break the double arm hold of the assailant that had gripped is jacket with both hands. It looked cool and all but hardly seemed efficient. After all it seems more simple to just strike / punch if you have use of both hands and the attacker does not since they are latched onto your clothing right? I figured there had to be more to it than that.

If your opponent grabs on the shirt of both side of your chest, when you try to punch him with your right hand, he can use his left hand to push your right shoulder back the moment that he detects your right arm punching intention. If you try to punch him with your left hand, he can do the same with his right hand push. All your opponent needs to do is a quick "shaking - push and pull", he can prevent you from generating any punching power during the initial stage.

That WC move is not suitable to break jacket hold. You will need to drop your elbow over your opponent's wrist to make it works. The "stiff arm" is not that easy to break.

 

[mook jong man]

If your opponent grabs on the shirt of both side of your chest, when you try to punch him with your right hand, he can use his left hand to push your right shoulder back the moment that he detects your right arm punching intention. If you try to punch him with your left hand, he can do the same with his right hand push. All your opponent needs to do is a quick "shaking - push and pull", he can prevent you from generating any punching power during the initial stage.

That WC move is not suitable to break jacket hold. You will need to drop your elbow over your opponent's wrist to make it works. The "stiff arm" is not that easy to break.

We use a double jut sau to jerk his arms down , which in turn brings his head down into a double palm strike.

But I agree with you I would not advocate using the particular movement previously mentioned to counter a double lapel grab , it's not really meant for that.
A far better option is to just place your arms over his so they are controlled and just pull him down into a strike.

 

[Kwan Sau]

Danny T is correct.
DO NOT COMPARTMENTALIZE THE ART OF WING CHUN!!!

Remember always wing chun is a principle and concept based system.
Therefore there are numerous possible applications with-in the different movements, positions, and postures.
The dummy arms can be a right or left or both can represent one arm. The arms could be from wrist to elbow or elbow to shoulder. When using the both arms as one, one arm could be wrist to elbow the other could be elbow to shoulder. I also am of the opinion that the more you see something within the forms the more important it is and when it is performed multiple times in sequence it is even more important in that there are multiple possible uses. Don't compartmentalize the actions as specific techniques or applications. Stay open to multiple options. The rolling action of the arms could be as Mook stated, could be an arm break, could be just moving the arm off line.

 

[sokonmatsumura]

A question in this same area. When performing this action on the mook jong I feel my elbows rising. I thought that in wing chun its always important to keep the elbows tucked unless doing a bong sau. Am I doing it incorrectly? Obviously a person's arms move whereas a dummy's does not.

 

[Danny T]

...I thought that in wing chun its always important to keep the elbows tucked unless doing a bong sau. Am I doing it incorrectly?

What about Lan Sao? Elbow is in the same height and position as in Bong Sao.

 

[Marnetmar]

We use a double jut sau to jerk his arms down

I like you. I hardly ever see any WC guys make good use of this technique.

 

[cwk]

We use a double jut sau to jerk his arms down , which in turn brings his head down into a double palm strike.

But I agree with you I would not advocate using the particular movement previously mentioned to counter a double lapel grab , it's not really meant for that.
A far better option is to just place your arms over his so they are controlled and just pull him down into a strike.[/QUOTE

You could also use your thumbs in their eyes instead of double palms and use the head movement to control their spine.
If they use stiff arms, a nice explosive double pao/tok sao to the elbows from underneath is a good option. If they don't let go then at least they'll rise upon their toes and then it's easy to apply the double jut sao or simply flip your hands over and strike with double biu saos to the armpit cavity or double phoenix eye strikes to the ribs underneath and then double jut. Another way is to jut one arm and tok the other, sending their weight to one leg and their body weight leaning over to one side and then sweep the supporting leg but this takes more practice.