Military-esque curriculum

[stone_dragone]

How comfortable would you be, based on your knowledge and experience level, teaching a military combative-type curriculum from a book?

Most military combatives manuals are written very simply and matter-of-factly. Almost all systems available teach techniques similar to the "more complex" traditional arts without the requirement for specific kata [ST31-204, US Special Forces Hand-to-Hand Fighting manual is an exception that I have found, but I'll discuss that later if you want].

I have often looked at specific manuals and found that it is often a streamlined version of what I already teach. I am contemplating teaching six week sessions based on various military H2H systems (i.e. LINES and MCMAP) without offering "certification" in said specific system. It would be more "...inspired by the Marine Corps Martial Arts Program..." which I, not being a Marine, am very familiar with but have never actually studied.

I think that the key would be to maintain the spirit of the system and the curriculum without using the particular Method of Instruction (which I understand is always a greater percentage of the actual system).

I just wanted to bounce that off of all y'all...

 

[Brian R. VanCise]

Learning in any type of medium other than personal hands on training you are going to lose certain nuances that could dramatically change the way it was written or viewed on video or DVD. An example would be someone trying to teach BJJ without having trained in it. They may get some of the things right but way to many nuances wrong in that it simply no longer is BJJ (or insert art here) or done in an totally ineffective way that can be easily countered by someone that knows the real thing.

I think a better approach would be to find your local armory or military station and find someone willing to show you their training and then you would have a much better understanding of how they do it. Good luck!

 

[stone_dragone]

I completely understand the requirement for hands-on training in anything that you are going to teach. For myself, the book has always been a second hand media. In the last 8 years in the Army, I have had the opportunity to train in Modern Army Combatives, it's precursor (doctrinally different but not having any name) and the old Marine Corps LINES training (through a former marine turned army warrant). I have recieved certification in none of the above, however.

I can look at them with a critical eye, however, having written or reviewed curriculum from several schools over the last few years...am I experienced enough to make a quality critique...probably not. Do I feel comfortable with at least being able to understand the principles and techniques...I think so.

Then again, It could be an ego trip....I think I'll go get my butt kicked by my wife to knock myself down a notch or two...

 

[MBuzzy]

You know...a lot of those curriculums' field manuals are written in such a way that ANYONE can instruct. Even if they are not certified....to make better use of "segeant's time." So teaching from the Field manual IF YOU HAVE some experience, in my opinion is just fine.

Especially if you have hand to hand or Self Defense experience from another art. What I learned in Army Combatives is VERY similar to the SD that I learned through Tang Soo Do. A lot of the same basic concepts, just executed differently for a different situation (no Kevlar kiss in TSD)...

 

[jks9199]

What is your purpose in offering this?

Because, right now, it sounds like you're trying to do a marketing gimmick like all the "taught Navy SEALS/Army Special Forces/police" crap in many instructors bios. They imply that they've formally taught as part of the training for whatever group... Except they haven't. They may have been brought in to teach a clinic that happened to be at the base or include soldiers/cops, or they have cops in their regular classes. Not nearly the same thing. (For a guy who really has done it... see Maurice Allen. Maurice Allen does teach as a formal part of the in-service curriculum at several police academies.) I'm not accusing you of trying to fool anyone or being a fraud -- I'm just wondering why you feel a need to go this particular route.

Beyond that -- if you've got decent broad experience in martial arts, you can probably teach from the manuals. But your students are probably going to wonder why they don't just buy the manual for themselves...

 

[stone_dragone]

What is your purpose in offering this?

Because, right now, it sounds like you're trying to do a marketing gimmick like all the "taught Navy SEALS/Army Special Forces/police" crap in many instructors bios. They imply that they've formally taught as part of the training for whatever group... Except they haven't. They may have been brought in to teach a clinic that happened to be at the base or include soldiers/cops, or they have cops in their regular classes. Not nearly the same thing. (For a guy who really has done it... see Maurice Allen. Maurice Allen does teach as a formal part of the in-service curriculum at several police academies.) I'm not accusing you of trying to fool anyone or being a fraud -- I'm just wondering why you feel a need to go this particular route.

Beyond that -- if you've got decent broad experience in martial arts, you can probably teach from the manuals. But your students are probably going to wonder why they don't just buy the manual for themselves...

If I get around to doing this type of program, it will be more for established students and not as a gimmick to lure in new folks. Something to break up the monotony and add variety...if I decide to try it.

As for folks claiming to teach Navy SEALS or SWAT teams and such when they have no connection other than being in the same line at Starbucks with a guy who claims to have been a SEAL in the 'Nam...they piss me off to no end as well.

It'll be a while before I ever try such a program out anyway... I have no solid student base or permanent schedule for teaching and won't inthe forseeable future...I'm just experimenting with ideas right now.

I also advocate buying the manual instead of hearing my take on it....

 

[jks9199]

If I get around to doing this type of program, it will be more for established students and not as a gimmick to lure in new folks. Something to break up the monotony and add variety...if I decide to try it.

As for folks claiming to teach Navy SEALS or SWAT teams and such when they have no connection other than being in the same line at Starbucks with a guy who claims to have been a SEAL in the 'Nam...they piss me off to no end as well.

It'll be a while before I ever try such a program out anyway... I have no solid student base or permanent schedule for teaching and won't inthe forseeable future...I'm just experimenting with ideas right now.

I also advocate buying the manual instead of hearing my take on it....

Cool...

Unfortunately, many students today aren't happy with simply training, and they need various things to shake them up. When I first started, we barely changed what we were doing as we moved to our association's annual tournament. My teacher'd just start critiqueing our forms a bit more specifically, or we might spar more regularly (and then not spar too close to the event to avoid injury). If you were kickboxing, you did some more specialized training... sometimes. Other times, you just trained in gloves.

 

[Omar B]

I think it would be interesting to learn LINE, MCMAP or whatever other military type martial art. Systems designed to be efficient, deadly and more interestingly, easy to learn quickly. What's not to love right? Certainly would be quite a change from Karate, shake things up a it.

I'm most interested in the teaching methods since it's something a recruite has a relativly short time to learn. Anybody have some training manuals they can recommend? I would love to have a look.

 

[Flying Crane]

If I get around to doing this type of program, it will be more for established students and not as a gimmick to lure in new folks. Something to break up the monotony and add variety...if I decide to try it.

i'm trying to understand why you might do this instead of simply teaching your regular art. Why would you need this to break up the monotony? What monotony would that be? Do you find your own art uninteresting?

 

[Cruentus]

It just depends on where you go with this.

I think the most important thing is integrity. Instructors get themselves in trouble when they present themselves as something they are not. If you simply present yourself and what you are teaching with integrity, then there is no problems. You already have some experience in military combatives through your service. The rest you have researched through manuals. Present it as such, and I see no problems. Teach what you want to teach, train want you want to train, just don't get into the imbellishing.

On a side note: just because it's "military" or even "special forces/seals/marine recon/ etc." that doesn't mean it is any good, at least when it comes to H2H programs. I have seen both some of the best and worst stuff come out of military circles. It all really depends; not much different then the civilian world...

 

[Brian R. VanCise]

On a side note: just because it's "military" or even "special forces/seals/marine recon/ etc." that doesn't mean it is any good, at least when it comes to H2H programs. I have seen both some of the best and worst stuff come out of military circles. It all really depends; not much different then the civilian world...

How true is this. It all comes down to seeing and making a judgement if the material is good. Some Defensive Tactics and H2H Combatives in law enforcement and the military is pretty good and some is pretty crappy! One of the biggest issues with law enforcement or military trainer's is that sometimes they themselves actually have very little training. Always research who and what you are learning and then make an educated decision!

 

[Drac]

How comfortable would you be, based on your knowledge and experience level, teaching a military combative-type curriculum from a book?

Off topic comment: The jerks in my deprtment were doing JUST THAT before I took over the hand to hand program..End Comment

 

[jks9199]

Off topic comment: The jerks in my deprtment were doing JUST THAT before I took over the hand to hand program..End Comment

That's beyond scary...

Especially with the proliferation of valid, reasonably credible and affortable, DT instructor certification programs of late...