Michael Moore's "Sicko" WATCH THE MOVIE HERE!!!

Looks like the movie is still up. I don't think it will be for long. Watch it while you can. I did last night and it pretty much summed up what I've felt for a long time.

For profit health care is a form of legalized extortion.
 
I think it's great that Michael Moore released this movie for free so that all people could have equal access to it, regardless of their economic situation.

Oh, he didn't?
 
Or wait for a week and a half. It will be in the theaters. If you agree with the message or at least support him asking the questions it's worth voting with your six bucks.
 
Too Late!!! its gone!! Probably have to wait 6 months before it gets here, if it ever does.
 
I've been able to separate my disdain for the buttwipe that is Michael Moore long enough to watch a few of his movies, and occasionally he actually makes a valid point. I found Roger and Me to be well done and this sounds like it might be worth watching as well, but the man himself is everything he laments in others. He is a liar, an egomaniac, self righteous, and manipulative.
 
Self righteous and manipulative? Probably.

A liar? No. His fact-checking has always excruciatingly careful. When he does the "Who, What, Where, When, Why and How" he's got a superb track record. And he's careful to separate his conclusions from them. In fact, he's offering a prize for anyone who can come up with a significant lie or error in Fahrenheit 9-11 and (I believe) Sicko. If you can come up with something other than the usual talking points jump in and let us know how he responds.

The difficulty comes in that a lot of people don't like his style or his conclusions. There's a lot of room for debate on those. I find myself disagreeing with a lot of them. He's a rabble rouser. It's his self-appointed job to push people's buttons, challenge their beliefs and get people to do what he thinks is right. You or I may not be the particular rabble he's trying to rouse. But the bare facts? He does a great job on those.
 
tellner said:
Or wait for a week and a half. It will be in the theaters. If you agree with the message or at least support him asking the questions it's worth voting with your six bucks.
Click to expand...

Well, I watched it on the internet and I'll be paying admission for a boatload of people to come and watch it with me when it comes out. I think this is a message that needs to get out, regardless of partisan alliance.

Health care affects us all regardless of our stripes and our current system hurts everyone regardless of their stripes. See the Spoiler below for more info.

The message of this film is simple. The health care system in this country is broken and every citizen in the US suffers a reduction in standard of living because of this. According to Michael Moore, the system is broken because it is controlled at the congressional level (through lobbying and nepotism) by giant health care corporations whose main goal is to increase profits, not take care of people.

Mr. Moore's solution is that the US should adopt the same universal health care system that all other industrialized countries have adopted. Mr. Moore supports this by deconstructing the myths that surround this topic by actually visiting other countries with this system and reporting on the conditions there. He goes on further to show that these myths were largely created by the American Health Care industry and that a large portion of their profits is used in the propagation of these myths.




















Spoiler Alert!!!!

Michael Moore makes the point in his film by showing how the guy who runs the top website on the net whose sole purpose is to attack him, almost had to shut the site down because his wife's medical bills had skyrocketed to tens of thousands of dollars (despite being insured) and he could no longer afford to run the site.

Mr. Moore sent a check anonymously to pay this person's bills.

Spoiler Alert Ends.
 
tellner said:
Self righteous and manipulative? Probably.

A liar? No. His fact-checking has always excruciatingly careful. When he does the "Who, What, Where, When, Why and How" he's got a superb track record. And he's careful to separate his conclusions from them. In fact, he's offering a prize for anyone who can come up with a significant lie or error in Fahrenheit 9-11 and (I believe) Sicko. If you can come up with something other than the usual talking points jump in and let us know how he responds.

The difficulty comes in that a lot of people don't like his style or his conclusions. There's a lot of room for debate on those. I find myself disagreeing with a lot of them. He's a rabble rouser. It's his self-appointed job to push people's buttons, challenge their beliefs and get people to do what he thinks is right. You or I may not be the particular rabble he's trying to rouse. But the bare facts? He does a great job on those.
Click to expand...

One can be deceitful without actually telling a lie. It's all in the setup and preying on human nature and the assumptions people will make; from conveniently leaving out facts to taking quotes out of context. Moore does an excellent job of that. It's his bread and butter. It's has become his schtick.

The usual talking points in discrediting much of Fahrenheit 9/11 have been about the deceit. Of course it would be difficult for people to find problems with the movie other than the problems they find with the movie.

He's offering a prize? How cute. I'm sure nobody will meet HIS criteria for finding a significant lie or error despite all of the well documented issues with F9/11.

I hope Sicko is good. I hope Sicko is to US Healthcare what Why We Fight is to the military industrial complex; an honest and intelligent look at our situation on how we got here. But, seeing that the premier of Sicko was specifically for people people with a lot of money in order to raise money to support a political party, I'm not feeling to good about that.
 
I've watched two of Moore's films; Fahrenheit 9-11 & Bowling for Columbine. With Fahrenheit I also watched the "counter" movie and found both films to be nothing more than pro or anti Bush propaganda films. Bowling for Columbine is basically an anti-gun film... no wonder Heston didn't want to talk to the guy :rolleyes:

Moore IMO does find some facts but I think he skews/manipulate other facts to support his claims. It's freedom of speech and people watching such films should be intelligent enough to make up their own minds. But Moore knows that a percentage of the people don't mull it over, they will watch and accept what they see. Another percentage will disbelieve it and another (smaller) percentage will do some fact finding of their own and really find the truth of the matter presented.

I'll give Moore kudos for standing up and saying "hey! Lookit whats wrong with this in America's society!" This needs to be done more often to wake the public out of it's complacent stupor and realize that there is something-just-not-quite-right with whatever it is we're supposed to be looking at. I believe it's our civic duty to do so to keep vigilant eyes on everything that affects our day to day lives.
Rising health care cost, rising costs of meds, rising gas prices, the legal system, the wars we fight, crime, education, poverty and so on. We have to watch and make sure that we (the people) aren't going to be bowled over by greed and big business and big government.
It's our right and it's our duty to do so. So I'll say "Thanks for the heads up Mike but I'll check on the facts my own and make sure all the ducks are in the right rows." :D
 
Here's a review of Lumpy Reifenstahls latest work. As with everything else, those who agree will, and those who don't, won't.
 
tellner said:
Self righteous and manipulative? Probably.

A liar? No. His fact-checking has always excruciatingly careful. When he does the "Who, What, Where, When, Why and How" he's got a superb track record. And he's careful to separate his conclusions from them. In fact, he's offering a prize for anyone who can come up with a significant lie or error in Fahrenheit 9-11 and (I believe) Sicko. If you can come up with something other than the usual talking points jump in and let us know how he responds.
Click to expand...

There is more than one way to lie - such as showing the then president of the NRA (Heston) saying the "cold dead fingers" speech after showing Columbine to make everyone think he said that shortly thereafter in Denver when in reality he said that a long time later in North Carolina in response to the fact that the gun was gift given to him there at the assembly. That's the kind I'm talking about. It's all part of that manipulation of "Facts" to make them say what he wants them to rather than the objective reality behind them.



He was even caught editing actual sentences uttered by people to make the point he wished to make rather than what the person actually said. That's lying.

there are literally dozens if not hundreds of internet sites dedicated to tearing him apart - not that they are all that trustworthy either - but Moore makes propaganda with a few facts thrown in - not documentaries.

Here - check it out:

http://www.preventtruthdecay.com/mainmiscmoore.htm
 
Unfortunately, "rhetoric" as a course was removed from required college coursework some time ago. It was, basically, how to pitch stuff, and recognize the techniques used by others to pitch theirs. Argumentation and debate gone sideways.

Moore uses perfectly common rhetorical techniques to present his arguments. It's the sciens of unfair fighting, mixing in enough trught with the lie to make the exaggerations go down easier. If you're gonna cap on Moore, you gotta cap on pretty much every policy enthusiast out there.

People who love George Bush, the USA, apple pie and hate terrorists use rhetoric to make their case to the public.
People who hate George Bush, the USA, apple pie and love terrorists use rhetoric to make their case to the public.

It's how people sell their fish; this is Moore's fish, and that's how he sells it. I like to think that the rampant and common use of rhetoric is why we are taught critical thinking...to break down the fallacies used in presentations aimed at guiding our thinking.

Regards,

D.
 
I found this site:
http://www.moorewatch.com/

That is supposed to be a watchdog for Moore (no idea how accurate their info may be).


*SPOILER ALERT*

In the movie SICKO, Jim Kenefick an opponent of Michael Moore receives $12,000. Jim Kenefick response on MooreWatch is:

In every single news article, blog post and Digg/Fark/Reddit (and others) thread about this, people are telling lies, misunderstanding events and generally getting everything as wrong as possible. I will make one last attempt to make this as simple to understand as I can. This is a chronology of events, including links to the source posts and dates wherever possible. If you are blogging or reporting on this matter, please be accurate.

Also, my last name has no “L” in it. It’s K. E. N. E. F. I. C. K. ;)

This will be my last post on the subject unless something new comes up; I promise I won’t bore you by rehashing this again. Consider this the definitive “wiki” of $12,000Gate. :)
Click to expand...

For the full story:
http://www.moorewatch.com/index.php/1635/


I plan on watching SICKO and make my own decision. I believe there is currently a health care problem in the US. This movie will probably help certain presidential candidates (for good or worse). I hope this movie will bring more awareness to the masses about the current health care condition. Wow I sound like a politician. Maybe I should wash my mouth with soap. (hehe)
 
I refuse to take anything people on both sides at face value. It's very easy to take facts and skew them to your own ends. Emphasize the points that are in your favor, play down, or flat out ignore, those that argue against you. Take the facts out of context and order, and arrange them to support your point of view. MM is a master at this.

I think the best thing I've ever seen involving MM was when his puppet self blew himself up in "Team America". I think there are those on Moore's radical left side of the spectrum, as well as those on the whacko right that should take that cue and let the rest of us deal with this stuff in a rational manner.
 
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