Mental reps

[Tigerwarrior]

So I want to talk about a phenomenon I've seen and personally experienced, but doesn't get talked about much. Mental reps. This can apply to any art I think but I personally experienced this in bjj. So I trained alot for my 1st comp, but in my 2nd match I pulled off an armbar set up I read in a Renzo gracie book, never even drilled it not once. It just came from nowhere I saw the opening and didn't even think about it and just went for it, I won that match with a move/setup I never drilled, I only saw it in a book like a month prior. I also heard chewy from chewjitsu talking about this a long time ago. Have you ever pulled off a move or set up you've either seen or read but never drilled? This has inspired me and I think it's a good option for if you cant train or are injured, your body may not be in the dojo but your mind can be. I've also heard a few stories here and there of guys who were out a few months for injuries, they couldn't physically train but went to classes just to watch, when they came back it was almost like they never left. What are your opinions on this and doing mental reps and visualization when you cant train for whatever circumstances? We've also heard the story about helio who was too frail to train but always watched his brother train, one day his brother couldn't make it to class and he taught his first jiu jitsu class.

 

[Tony Dismukes]

The term you’re looking for if you want to check out academic studies on the phenomenon is Visuo-Motor Behavior Rehearsal (VMBR).

My personal experience is that

1. VMBR is better than no practice, but less effective than actual physical reps and …
2. VMBR works much better for those who have substantial experience in the field being practiced than for beginners. I’ve been doing BJJ long enough that I can often (not always) see a new technique on video, mentally rehearse it, and then execute on the mat, even in sparring. That’s not something I could have done as a beginner.

I haven’t read much of the research in the field, but what I’ve seen seems to support these two points.

 

[Holmejr]

So cool, and yes.
I think as we move away from technique to technique to technique, we move into concept. My instructor will say, we all know the same techniques, now you have to forget about them. Watching a vid or seeing it in a book and thinking “how do I pull that off”. Then you just somehow flow into it. When it happens, it’s like magic. Sometimes you can’t even remember how you got there. Haha, I just thought of the matrix, where the kid is bending the spoon and his quote “…there is no spoon…”

 

[Jared Traveler]

I think ones aspect playing the "what if" game does for you is to teach your mind to continue to think and solve problems.

With that said, when I was 20 years old I went to my first police academy. I only had experience in Hapkido and Taekwondo at that time, but I was reading a lot about Jujitsu in Black Belt magazine and looking at photos of moves.

In the academy I actually got to roll and go full force (not allowed in Hapkido), to my surprise I was able to perform many of the techniques I had seen in pictures and get everyone in my class to tap out consistently (they had no martial arts experience).

I then used these techniques as a jailer fighting to control and subdue inmates on several occasions, prior to being deputized at 21 years old. And prior to taking my first jujitsu training.

It's not perfect, but it certainly can be productive.

 

[mograph]

"Research has shown that motor imagery (MI) interventions, involving the systematic and repeated imagination of visual and kinaesthetic components of movements, can enhance performance in sport."

Also look up PETTLEP imaging studies. Here's an article (source of above quote).

Twenty years of PETTLEP imagery: An update and new direction for simulation-based training

Research has shown that motor imagery (MI) interventions, involving the systematic and repeated imagination of visual and kinaesthetic components of m…

www.sciencedirect.com

 

[Jared Traveler]

Under stress during the brain reaches back into its memory and asks itself, "Is this a new experience? Or have we solved a problem like this in the past?"

If the brain recognizes a similar experience where you were successful at solving the problem, it is less likely you will panic. You are far more likely to stay calm and work through the problem.

This is why stress inoculation is so important, because in real life you will be solving these problems under acute stress. Playing the "What if" game while drinking a coke and sitting on the couch is helpful, but it's far more helpful if you actually train in a tactile way, under stress.

 

[Gyakuto]

I’m a big fan of the use of mental rehearsal/visualisation. Back when we couldn’t get a non-ferrous musical keyboard in an MRI room for fMRI studies we used to ask the subjects to imagine they were playing a keyboard. When we did get a perspex, MRI safe keyboard and compared the imaginary playing brain activations with the actual playing activations, they were surprisingly, very similar! Then I started reading about how athletes and sportspeople used mental imagery and it seems, as Tony Dismukes suggests, is great for rehearsal, especially for the experienced. The richer the visualisation - visual plus auditory, tactile, olfactory - the more useful. There’s a little controversy between which is best- visualising your performance from the externally, like watching a video, or internally from the performer’s eye view so both tend to be utilised.

A very good book on the subject is-

I like to run through my kata sequences as I’m lying in bed before sleep. The problem is I only get to 2nd or third!

 

[Bill Mattocks]

I like to run through my kata sequences as I’m lying in bed before sleep. The problem is I only get to 2nd or third!

I do that also. And yes, same as counting sheep, I'm out very soon thereafter!

 

[Gyakuto]

I do that also. And yes, same as counting sheep, I'm out very soon thereafter!

It’s our age Bill

 

[skribs]

The nice thing about mental reps is you can do them in times you can't do physical reps. Driving home, sitting at your desk at work, etc.

 

[Gyakuto]

The nice thing about mental reps is you can do them in times you can't do physical reps. Driving home, sitting at your desk at work, etc.

Well as a member of the ‘Institute of Advanced Motorists’, I’d suggest you keep fully attentive of your driving

It’s great if you are injured, have forgotten a book when queuing, or being nagged by a significant other

 

[Tigerwarrior]

I think ones aspect playing the "what if" game does for you is to teach your mind to continue to think and solve problems.

With that said, when I was 20 years old I went to my first police academy. I only had experience in Hapkido and Taekwondo at that time, but I was reading a lot about Jujitsu in Black Belt magazine and looking at photos of moves.

In the academy I actually got to roll and go full force (not allowed in Hapkido), to my surprise I was able to perform many of the techniques I had seen in pictures and get everyone in my class to tap out consistently (they had no martial arts experience).

I then used these techniques as a jailer fighting to control and subdue inmates on several occasions, prior to being deputized at 21 years old. And prior to taking my first jujitsu training.

It's not perfect, but it certainly can be productive.

Thats an awesome story. And you even ended up using the same moves as a jailer. That's more proof visual learning and visualization can work when uses right. Thanks for sharing bro.

 

[Tigerwarrior]

I’m a big fan of the use of mental rehearsal/visualisation. Back when we couldn’t get a non-ferrous musical keyboard in an MRI room for fMRI studies we used to ask the subjects to imagine they were playing a keyboard. When we did get a perspex, MRI safe keyboard and compared the imaginary playing brain activations with the actual playing activations, they were surprisingly, very similar! Then I started reading about how athletes and sportspeople used mental imagery and it seems, as Tony Dismukes suggests, is great for rehearsal, especially for the experienced. The richer the visualisation - visual plus auditory, tactile, olfactory - the more useful. There’s a little controversy between which is best- visualising your performance from the externally, like watching a video, or internally from the performer’s eye view so both tend to be utilised.

A very good book on the subject is-
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I like to run through my kata sequences as I’m lying in bed before sleep. The problem is I only get to 2nd or third!

Thanks for the book suggestion. I'm gonna have to check that book out.

 

[Tigerwarrior]

I'm trying to improve my visualisation so I can get to the point where I can do some sparring in my head. I can only do about 3 moves right now, but I think I'll get better at it with more practice.

 

[Jared Traveler]

I am taking nightly motorcycle rides in Thailand with my 15 year old daughter. Following here on a motorcycle, as she is learning the crazy, complex task of driving in traffic here.

I was having here what if some driving scenario after we stopped at a 711 last night.

 

[Tony Dismukes]

I am taking nightly motorcycle rides in Thailand with my 15 year old daughter. Following here on a motorcycle, as she is learning the crazy, complex task of driving in traffic here.

I was having here what if some driving scenario after we stopped at a 711 last night.

Be careful. A friend of mine who lives in Thailand just got hit by a truck while riding on a motorcycle taxi last week. Broke a bunch of bones, going in for surgery shortly, and is expecting 6 months before he can walk again.

 

[Jared Traveler]

Be careful. A friend of mine who lives in Thailand just got hit by a truck while riding on a motorcycle taxi last week. Broke a bunch of bones, going in for surgery shortly, and is expecting 6 months before he can walk again.

Yes, it is highly dangerous. My son has been in four minor motorcycle accidents already, one requiring several stitches. He had a hole in his arm where a rock got in there.

As a police officer I worked thousands of wrecks and hundreds of motorcycle wrecks. I use to ride when I was 18-21 then gave it up after becoming a cop.

But in Thailand everyday is motorcycle season and it is the practical way to get around in traffic. So we do it, but with a focus on learning how others have been hurt and wrecks, and trying not to repeat those mistakes.

 

[_Simon_]

I like to run through my kata sequences as I’m lying in bed before sleep.

I do that also. And yes, same as counting sheep, I'm out very soon thereafter!

I DO THIS TOO!! Yes, I'm not the only one! It's a default thing that happens though, I don't even mean to, but katas just play in my head at that time!

 

[Gyakuto]

I DO THIS TOO!! Yes, I'm not the only one! It's a default thing that happens though, I don't even mean to, but katas just play in my head at that time!

Yeah, don’t be too pleased, Bill and I are clearly not normal, and now you are one of us!

 

[mograph]

I'm trying to improve my visualisation so I can get to the point where I can do some sparring in my head. I can only do about 3 moves right now, but I think I'll get better at it with more practice.

Yes, practice helps a lot, to imprint multiple scenarios. I can't do it with sparring, but I can do it with squash, because I've played a while. I combine successful practice tactics with lived game memories, to mentally imprint success into imagined game scenarios. It helps that my tactics have been successful in games, of course.

It sounds like you're on the right path, as visualizing successful sparring is the way to go; none of that visualizing standing on the winner's podium, as some (not those here) suggest. Ugh.