Master Ken represents a lot more martial artists than I originally believed.

[skribs]

I knew what Master Ken was right away. He was the caricature of the guy who trains for a few months at a bunch of gyms, before washing out or getting kicked out, and then decides to buy a black belt on Amazon and set up his own martial art.

However, there's another side to Master Ken that - even though I've seen it since I started watching his show several years ago - I haven't realized until recently. Master Ken is also the guy that argues on the Internet about which martial art is best.

He starts all of his seminars and speeches with the same basic line: all martial arts (except his: Ameri-Do-Te) are BS. He's even got videos for several martial arts, explaining how they're BS. The funny thing is, the one he ripped on the hardest was Kenpo, and the actor is actually a black belt in Kenpo Karate.

I've been in a lot of discussions here and on other sites lately, where people seem to have that attitude. People latch onto something about their training. Maybe it's their specific art, maybe it's a collective group of arts they train. Maybe it's a specific piece of training, like always training for competitions, or always training with a partner. Maybe something else. But people latch onto that one piece of training, and decry everything else as BS.

Master Ken isn't just the no-talent hack that started his own art to feed his ego. He's also every martial artist that sits there on the keyboard and bashes other arts out of their own insecurities. He's also every martial artist that thinks themselves the arbiter of the arts, who must be the martial art police and tell everyone why their art is bad, their schools is bad, or they are bad.

It's hilarious when Master Ken does it, because he does it ironically. He's satire, and he knows it. It's a lot less funny, and a lot more sad when I see people do it as a defense mechanism instead.

 

[Monkey Turned Wolf]

Except I managed to dodge all the nerf darts with my art. So your art sucks.

 

[Headhunter]

Lol in a way I feel bad for the actor who plays him because now no one is ever going to take him seriously as a real martial artist lol

 

[Steve]

Good points. Master Ken, like all good parody, only exaggerates things that already exist. It wouldn't be funny if it wasn't familiar. So, the arguments he makes are hyperbolic versions of arguments we see around here. AND, the martial arts techniques, training, philosophies, etc he parodies are hyperbolic versions of the way people actually train, and the philosophies we actually hear around here.

I'd actually take it one step further and say that Master Ken represents pretty much every martial artists, to some extent.

 

[skribs]

Good points. Master Ken, like all good parody, only exaggerates things that already exist. It wouldn't be funny if it wasn't familiar. So, the arguments he makes are hyperbolic versions of arguments we see around here. AND, the martial arts techniques, training, philosophies, etc he parodies are hyperbolic versions of the way people actually train, and the philosophies we actually hear around here.

I'd actually take it one step further and say that Master Ken represents pretty much every martial artists, to some extent.

The thing is, there's some kernel of truth to half of his techniques. Some of them are just silly (like the hurticane). The kill face is an exaggeration of the kiyhap, or more historically the battle cry. The "thrust of freedom" (hip strikes) actually has application if you're teaching bear hug defense or for a hip toss. If you watch him stomp and restomp the groin, you'll notice he's using the ball of his foot on the restomp - it looks like a decent strike.

 

[ShortBridge]

You're discounting the fact that Master Ken has trained in over three dozen martial arts facilities and none were able to contain him.

 

[Monkey Turned Wolf]

The thing is, there's some kernel of truth to half of his techniques. Some of them are just silly (like the hurticane). The kill face is an exaggeration of the kiyhap, or more historically the battle cry. The "thrust of freedom" (hip strikes) actually has application if you're teaching bear hug defense or for a hip toss. If you watch him stomp and restomp the groin, you'll notice he's using the ball of his foot on the restomp - it looks like a decent strike.

I think some of that is just accidental actual technique seeping in.

 

[Danny T]

Lol in a way I feel bad for the actor who plays him because now no one is ever going to take him seriously as a real martial artist lol

Matt Page, who plays Master Ken is an accomplished martial artists in his own right. Joe Conway, who plays Todd Woodland (the Blue Belt), is a Kenpo black belt who owns the dojo where they did most of their filming for "Enter the Dojo".

 

[skribs]

I think some of that is just accidental actual technique seeping in.

I think it's just enough so that people will see something they recognize. I don't think he unintentionally does anything.

 

[Headhunter]

Matt Page, who plays Master Ken is an accomplished martial artists in his own right. Joe Conway, who plays Todd Woodland (the Blue Belt), is a Kenpo black belt who owns the dojo where they did most of their filming for "Enter the Dojo".

Yes I know

 

[JP3]

LOL! I'd forgotten about the stomp... and RE-stomp, the groin! That was hilarious...

 

[Buka]

What is this blasphemy concerning Master Ken?!

This crazy God damn Martial Art thing we all do can occasionally use a chuckle or three. Don’t ya think?

 

[geezer]

Lol in a way I feel bad for the actor who plays him because now no one is ever going to take him seriously as a real martial artist lol

I had to disagree (in a friendly way). I think that his over-the-top caricature not only gives him celebrity, but it actually gives him some credibility. Everyone knows he's a real martial artist, (kempo I believe) and by doing the ridiculous character of "Master Ken" he shows the world what he is not!

...or at least, that's how it looks to me.

 

[skribs]

I had to disagree (in a friendly way). I think that his over-the-top caricature not only gives him celebrity, but it actually gives him some credibility. Everyone knows he's a real martial artist, (kempo I believe) and by doing the ridiculous character of "Master Ken" he shows the world what he is not!

...or at least, that's how it looks to me.

I was watching a video where he did a seminar in the UK, and at one point he's showing how to use the Thrust of Freedom for a bear hug defense. The guy he picks grabs him and just picks him up off the ground. Without missing a beat, he just rolls his eyes and starts tapping the dude in the groin with his heel. As if to say, "I know you think you're being cute, but I've got a technique for this, too." Then the dude put him down, and he showed the technique he wanted to show.

This is the sad part...the technique he used was basically 95% the same as one of our red belt techniques that we teach at my school. Use your hips to lift them off balance, then scoop their leg and pull up so they fall on their back, and then back kick. The only difference is we aim for the groin, and he aimed for the face (I'm honestly surprised he didn't go for the groin). The other difference is that when we say "bend down, and then lift", he says "rear thrust". He also showed a hip toss using a "side thrust".

While some of his techniques are complete jokes (like the hurticane or the kill face), the Thrust of Freedom does have some legitimate uses, if you think outside the box with it.

 

[drop bear]

Everyone i train with who bear hugs me basically wants to suplex me. And I hate getting suplexed. So needless to say I don't tend to use thrusts of freedom.

I have a really good hack defense for a bear hug that basically takes no real skill. Unless you are against someone good. In which case you have to have some good transitions.

And it is basically I trap their arms and sit down. And the trick is to be able to then spin around and get back up quickly.

It is probably the easiest and most bulletproof " street" style defense I know.

 

[Monkey Turned Wolf]

Everyone i train with who bear hugs me basically wants to suplex me. And I hate getting suplexed. So needless to say I don't tend to use thrusts of freedom.

I have a really good hack defense for a bear hug that basically takes no real skill. Unless you are against someone good. In which case you have to have some good transitions.

And it is basically I trap their arms and sit down. And the trick is to be able to then spin around and get back up quickly.

It is probably the easiest and most bulletproof " street" style defense I know.

I spent two years learning different bear hug defenses and trying to find one that actually worked against someone bugger than me who was being serious. Sitting down was never something I found, then one day either someone suggested it or I saw it written somewhere. I tried it and it worked. Not sure why people teach all the other ones.

 

[drop bear]

I spent two years learning different bear hug defenses and trying to find one that actually worked against someone bugger than me who was being serious. Sitting down was never something I found, then one day either someone suggested it or I saw it written somewhere. I tried it and it worked. Not sure why people teach all the other ones.

It took me ten years of trying to throw body elbows (Which didn't work at all) then leg grab (sort of works), then step around(sort of works) to either the sit down or frame off the hip which works pretty well.

The sit down basically takes no real skill or timing and for my style having my back taken is terrifying. I really have to deal with it.

 

[Monkey Turned Wolf]

It took me ten years of trying to throw body elbows (Which didn't work at all) then leg grab (sort of works), then step around(sort of works) to either the sit down or frame off the hip which works pretty well.

The sit down basically takes no real skill or timing and for my style having my back taken is terrifying. I really have to deal with it.

The biggest issue is that a lot of those work if you're bigger than the guy doing them. Which most of the people who make them are bigger, from my experience.

So we use me as a test subject, since I'm tiny (just shy of 5'7, depending on the month anywhere from 120 to 140 pounds), and have a guy much bigger than me as the attacker. We did both him trying to put me into common holds during sparring that I'd have to break out of, or use techs and just have full resistance (kind of like ramsey dewey stuff, but imagine a 100 + pound difference between him and his student). Found out a lot of stuff didn't work. So with bear hugs...
Body elbows: Didn't work at all.

Leg grab: worked if I could trick him, and managed to keep a base.

Step around: didn't work at all. The step would cause me to lose my base, and I didn't have the strength to fight for the full base.

Stomping the foot: didn't work at all.

Kicking the knee/groin: I never seemed to get the angle right. And when I'd go for the kick I'd just be lifted more so there'd be no power on it. If the guy attacking happens to be someone who just a tap to the groin incapacitates him, AND I get the aim right, then it would probably work. Otherwise, I'm just letting him lift me.

Trying to throw him: Never worked. Not even close.

Making space, then throw/leg grab: Felt kind of like bridging in BJJ. I could do it, but you have to work really hard to keep that space, and when he was really trying to prevent me from escaping it didn't work.

Sitting: worked if I did it right away. Don't end up in the best position, but better than a bear hug. If he managed to lift me or cement it in place, it could still work, but not 100% of the time. Pretty sure that was more a result of me not sitting right (when there's a huge difference there is some "skillful sitting", especially if they know that's what you're going to do).

Don't think we tried anything else specifically for a rear bear hug. If anyone's got any other ideas I'd be more than happy to try them out with a much-bigger-than-me friend, once this is over, and report my findings.

 

[Monkey Turned Wolf]

The biggest issue is that a lot of those work if you're bigger than the guy doing them. Which most of the people who make them are bigger, from my experience.

So we use me as a test subject, since I'm tiny (just shy of 5'7, depending on the month anywhere from 120 to 140 pounds), and have a guy much bigger than me as the attacker. We did both him trying to put me into common holds during sparring that I'd have to break out of, or use techs and just have full resistance (kind of like ramsey dewey stuff, but imagine a 100 + pound difference between him and his student). Found out a lot of stuff didn't work. So with bear hugs...
Body elbows: Didn't work at all.

Leg grab: worked if I could trick him, and managed to keep a base.

Step around: didn't work at all. The step would cause me to lose my base, and I didn't have the strength to fight for the full base.

Stomping the foot: didn't work at all.

Kicking the knee/groin: I never seemed to get the angle right. And when I'd go for the kick I'd just be lifted more so there'd be no power on it. If the guy attacking happens to be someone who just a tap to the groin incapacitates him, AND I get the aim right, then it would probably work. Otherwise, I'm just letting him lift me.

Trying to throw him: Never worked. Not even close.

Making space, then throw/leg grab: Felt kind of like bridging in BJJ. I could do it, but you have to work really hard to keep that space, and when he was really trying to prevent me from escaping it didn't work.

Sitting: worked if I did it right away. Don't end up in the best position, but better than a bear hug. If he managed to lift me or cement it in place, it could still work, but not 100% of the time. Pretty sure that was more a result of me not sitting right (when there's a huge difference there is some "skillful sitting", especially if they know that's what you're going to do).

Don't think we tried anything else specifically for a rear bear hug. If anyone's got any other ideas I'd be more than happy to try them out with a much-bigger-than-me friend, once this is over, and report my findings.

Forgot a couple other we tried for S & G, none of which worked: spinning around really fast. Backing up into a wall (or going forward into a wall), doing a kneeling throw (can't recall the name), trying a headbutt.

The one other thing that did work was lewdly asking if he was ready to get the party started. Got him to laugh and back up a bit. Not sure how well that'll work in an actual situation, but worth a try.

 

[drop bear]

The biggest issue is that a lot of those work if you're bigger than the guy doing them. Which most of the people who make them are bigger, from my experience.

So we use me as a test subject, since I'm tiny (just shy of 5'7, depending on the month anywhere from 120 to 140 pounds), and have a guy much bigger than me as the attacker. We did both him trying to put me into common holds during sparring that I'd have to break out of, or use techs and just have full resistance (kind of like ramsey dewey stuff, but imagine a 100 + pound difference between him and his student). Found out a lot of stuff didn't work. So with bear hugs...
Body elbows: Didn't work at all.

Leg grab: worked if I could trick him, and managed to keep a base.

Step around: didn't work at all. The step would cause me to lose my base, and I didn't have the strength to fight for the full base.

Stomping the foot: didn't work at all.

Kicking the knee/groin: I never seemed to get the angle right. And when I'd go for the kick I'd just be lifted more so there'd be no power on it. If the guy attacking happens to be someone who just a tap to the groin incapacitates him, AND I get the aim right, then it would probably work. Otherwise, I'm just letting him lift me.

Trying to throw him: Never worked. Not even close.

Making space, then throw/leg grab: Felt kind of like bridging in BJJ. I could do it, but you have to work really hard to keep that space, and when he was really trying to prevent me from escaping it didn't work.

Sitting: worked if I did it right away. Don't end up in the best position, but better than a bear hug. If he managed to lift me or cement it in place, it could still work, but not 100% of the time. Pretty sure that was more a result of me not sitting right (when there's a huge difference there is some "skillful sitting", especially if they know that's what you're going to do).

Don't think we tried anything else specifically for a rear bear hug. If anyone's got any other ideas I'd be more than happy to try them out with a much-bigger-than-me friend, once this is over, and report my findings.

Kimoura is about the only one you haven't mentioned. I haven't had much luck with it.

Which is a pity because they are super self defensy. And you could then do a kimouras from every where and cover a lot of bases.

You can do it without butt flopping but the ground is the ocean and so on.