Martial Arts Expert Killed in Durban, South Africa.....

[Brian R. VanCise]

I posted this today over on my blog The Instinctive Edge

Here is the direct link: Martial arts expert killed by muggers - Crime & Courts | IOL News | IOL.co.za

 

[Buka]

So sad. My heart goes out to his family and friends.

I've spent time in South Africa, I have friends there. In the last ten years or so it has become the "murder by stabbing" capitol of the world. I'm told it is like the Old West of America. The populace has become the largest purchasers of barbed and razor wire on the planet.

 

[K-man]

There are a number of lessons here.

The guy is claimed to be a self defence expert yet he is walking around with a headset on, listening to music. Those of us that teach self defence tell our students not to use headsets when you're out and about because you lose one of your major senses.

The guy is killed with a knife. Now, the article doesn't say what actually happened but maybe he believed his own hype and thought he could take on a knife. Reality says the person with a knife has a huge advantage, even more so if he knows how to use a knife. That's why in self defence we teach people to get away from a knife if at all possible.

Then this: “Tyson was one of the strongest people I came across. There must have been a group of people that attacked him because he could handle himself in any combat situation,” he said."

The the article suggests there must have been multiple assailants as he was strong and a 'martial arts expert'. Why? Any street fight you like to enter is an unknown. In the ring you have a matched opponent and a referee. On the street you have no idea. You enter a street fight at your peril. Self defence says get out of "Dodge". There is no evidence of multiple attackers, just a man dead from knife wounds. The lesson here is don't believe that your training makes you invincible, it doesn't.

Being fit and strong is essential in the ring. Against a weapon on the street ... it isn't going to help much at all. In a situation like this adrenal dump may have made him freeze, no one will ever know for sure. And handling himself in a 'combat situation'? Really? Combat situation to me means the guy has been involved in hand to hand fighting in the military. Training against a partner in the gym is not in the same league as fighting for your life.

And a comment on knife defence training. I see people attending knife defence seminars, and I attend them myself. People attend these seminars so they can feel confident they can take on someone with a knife. Very few of the instructors tell their audience that the most likely scenario is that they are at a high risk of being killed. I attend to see what the 'experts' are teaching so that I can be sure that what I teach is up to speed. In every case the only defence taught was against a single slash or stab and it is easy to understand why. In a three hour session how much can you teach? Then these guys go away safe in the knowledge that they can handle a knife attack. How much practice do they do in the following days and months? Probably none because even if they are training martial arts, most places don't train those kinds of things even regularly in my experience.

This is a sad experience for all associated with this young man but all of us can learn something from his death.
:asian:

 

[RTKDCMB]

There are a number of lessons here.

The guy is claimed to be a self defence expert yet he is walking around with a headset on, listening to music. Those of us that teach self defence tell our students not to use headsets when you're out and about because you lose one of your major senses.

The guy is killed with a knife. Now, the article doesn't say what actually happened but maybe he believed his own hype and thought he could take on a knife. Reality says the person with a knife has a huge advantage, even more so if he knows how to use a knife. That's why in self defence we teach people to get away from a knife if at all possible.

Then this: “Tyson was one of the strongest people I came across. There must have been a group of people that attacked him because he could handle himself in any combat situation,” he said."

The the article suggests there must have been multiple assailants as he was strong and a 'martial arts expert'. Why? Any street fight you like to enter is an unknown. In the ring you have a matched opponent and a referee. On the street you have no idea. You enter a street fight at your peril. Self defence says get out of "Dodge". There is no evidence of multiple attackers, just a man dead from knife wounds. The lesson here is don't believe that your training makes you invincible, it doesn't.

Being fit and strong is essential in the ring. Against a weapon on the street ... it isn't going to help much at all. In a situation like this adrenal dump may have made him freeze, no one will ever know for sure. And handling himself in a 'combat situation'? Really? Combat situation to me means the guy has been involved in hand to hand fighting in the military. Training against a partner in the gym is not in the same league as fighting for your life.

And a comment on knife defence training. I see people attending knife defence seminars, and I attend them myself. People attend these seminars so they can feel confident they can take on someone with a knife. Very few of the instructors tell their audience that the most likely scenario is that they are at a high risk of being killed. I attend to see what the 'experts' are teaching so that I can be sure that what I teach is up to speed. In every case the only defence taught was against a single slash or stab and it is easy to understand why. In a three hour session how much can you teach? Then these guys go away safe in the knowledge that they can handle a knife attack. How much practice do they do in the following days and months? Probably none because even if they are training martial arts, most places don't train those kinds of things even regularly in my experience.

This is a sad experience for all associated with this young man but all of us can learn something from his death.
:asian:

According to the story he trained at a place called Defence Lab, I just had a quick look at their site:

Defence Lab: Home

There is not one mention of what martial art they actually teach, I find that strange.

This site describes their instructor program in North America:

Defence Lab?s Instructor Development Program (IDP) | Defence Lab North America Site

Based on this he may not have had much self defence experience, definitely not an expert.

 

[Tgace]

You can be the worlds best martial artist and still get killed by some teenage mugger with a knife. The idea that martial arts training is some sort of proof against attack needs to get tossed.

Sent from my Kindle Fire using Tapatalk 2

 

[Rumy73]

What really needs to be said about self defense, when things are reduced to actual violence, is that in the course of such action one faces a high likelihood of injury or possibly death. A lucky slash of the knife can bring even the most capable martial artist to his or her demise.

 

[K-man]

According to the story he trained at a place called Defence Lab, I just had a quick look at their site:

Defence Lab: Home

There is not one mention of what martial art they actually teach, I find that strange.

This site describes their instructor program in North America:

Defence Lab?s Instructor Development Program (IDP) | Defence Lab North America Site

Based on this he may not have had much self defence experience, definitely not an expert.

We have had threads on McDojos. This is a McDojo. Defence Lab is a franchise. Most of the 'team' are marketing and franchising people. It looks as if it has come from Krav but if it has it is a very watered down version if their promo videos are anything to go by. According to their material you don't even need to be a martial artist to join their instructor programme.

Another example of a little bit of knowledge can be a dangerous thing.
:asian:

 

[Rumy73]

Mcdojo or not, if one fights, one will get hurt or even killed.

 

[Buka]

You can be the worlds best martial artist and still get killed by some teenage mugger with a knife. The idea that martial arts training is some sort of proof against attack needs to get tossed.

Sent from my Kindle Fire using Tapatalk 2

A agree whole heartedly with this.

There is a certain caveat, though. Some Martial Artists are very familiar with violence. And some of them are damn good at it.

 

[K-man]

Mcdojo or not, if one fights, one will get hurt or even killed.

Not necessarily. If one who is well trained fights he may get hurt or even killed, but at least he has a chance. If one who thinks he is well trained fights, he is putting himself at greater risk of harm.

Here is how he introduced himself on another forum.

HELLO EVERYONE,MY NAME IS TYSON MURUGAN, I M 25,I COME FROM SOUTH AFRICA AND AM A DEFENCE LAB INSTRUCTOR FOR 3 YEARS RUNNING LEARNING SOMETHING NEW AND EVOLVING THE STYLE EVERYDAY INSTEAD OF REMAINING STATIC LEARNING THE SAME THINGS AS MOST OTHERS. SINCE THE INTRODUCTION OF THE ART TO THE WORLD VIA HOLLYWOOD FILMS LIKE THE DARK KNIGHT ETC HAVING TRAINED DIRECTLY WITH AND CERTIFIED BY THE FOUNDER OF THE ART ANDY NORMAN ABROAD IN ENGLAND,IT IS NICE TO INTERACT AND TRAIN WITH OTHERS IN MARTIAL ARTS I HOPE EVERYONE HERE HAS AN OPEN MIND TO MARTIAL ARTS AS IN DEFENCE LAB WE ARE ENCOURAGED TO CROSS TRAIN IN ORDER TO UNDERSTAND OTHER STYLES OF FIGHTING AS THIS IS A REALITY BASED MARTIAL ART WE ARE CONSTANTLY FACING MULTIPLE OPPONENT ALL ATTACKING AT THE SAME TIME,I VE TRAINED IN MANY DIFFERENT STYLES OVER THE 15 YEARS IN MARTIAL ARTS AND TRAINING AND I ALWAYS STRIVE TO PROGRESSIVELY LEARN MORE AND UNDERSTAND MORESO ABOUT MARTIAL ARTS AND TRAINING AND DIFFERENT TRAINING PROCESSES AND THE PROCESSES INVOLVED WHICH I FIND HIGHLY ENJOYABLE,I VE STUCK RIGHT NOW WITH DEFENCE LAB BECAUSE IT HAS DONE WHAT MANY MARTIAL ARTS ARE AFRAID TO DO BY INTRODUCING AND MAKING US UNDERSTAND STRESS HOWEVER IT IS ALWAYS A GREAT IDEA TO LEARN A MARTIAL ART BEFORE JUDGING,I M VERY GLAD TO BE APART OF THIS FORUM AND HOPE TO UNDERSTAND MORE OF EACH OTHER TO MAKE OURSELVES BETTER IN OUR TRAINING AND OURSELVES.

:asian:

 

[Rumy73]

Really has a chance? Against a gun? A knife? A gang?

 

[Rumy73]

So his description sounds like every other dude on here.

 

[K-man]

Really has a chance? Against a gun? A knife? A gang?

Obviously you know more about this event than me. What gun? What gang? But to put it into context, do you train to disarm against knives or guns? Do you train against multiple attackers?

So his description sounds like every other dude on here.

I think many here are aware of our limitations.

Some have come here as child soldiers who started at five, had their blackbelts at ten and are God's gift to the martial art community at 21. Someone who has trained in 'many' martial arts over a relatively short period of time is likely to only have a superficial knowledge.
:asian:

 

[RTKDCMB]

We have had threads on McDojos. This is a McDojo. Defence Lab is a franchise. Most of the 'team' are marketing and franchising people. It looks as if it has come from Krav but if it has it is a very watered down version if their promo videos are anything to go by. According to their material you don't even need to be a martial artist to join their instructor programme.

Another example of a little bit of knowledge can be a dangerous thing.
:asian:

From the promo videos it seems that the style is based partly on KFM as the head instructor is one of the founders.. This is a quote from his site;


"The ultimate quest for any self defence student is 'status'. By this I mean that self defence should be cool, it should be seen as a pastime that others would like to do. This all comes down to branding and marketing. Something that Krav Maga and Kesyi did very well."

The New World Of Self Defence- Andy Norman's Defence Lab, Krav maga and Judo Self Defence - The Self Defence Expert.comThe Self Defence Expert.com

 

[frank raud]

Perhaps learning martial arts and/or self defense from someone whose main claim to fame is a fight consultant to movies isn't the best idea.

 

[billc]

I have a suggestion that would increase the odds of surviving a great deal...

 

[K-man]

I have a suggestion that would increase the odds of surviving a great deal...

Mmm! I'll bet you do. In fact, in South Africa you are allowed firearms, including handguns, for self defence.
:asian:

 

[billc]

Did he have one?

 

[skribs]

(Even) if he had one, he may not have had time to get to it.

 

[RTKDCMB]

(Even) if he had one, he may not have had time to get to it.

Or his attacker might have used it against him.