Leglocks vs. BJJer

[jezr74]

I enjoy tangling with BJJers so I can learn how they move, and try and escape or imitate. I don't often get the upper hand, but when I do, it tends to be if I manage somehow to get a leg lock (I'm talking basic lock here, arm under the calf and pressure to the knee, stuff I did as a kid growing up fighting friends, nothing fancy) then they taps out "fairly" quick. I've decided not to say anything in case I loose an advantage and they start to see what I'm trying to setup. I'm sure they think its a fluke any time I get them.

But I think I've noticed that one person in particular gets a little panicky when I do it. So my question is, is this a struggle area in BJJ? Have I found an Achilles heel, or is it in my mind.

 

[Tony Dismukes]

It varies quite a bit by school and individual. Some BJJers love working with leg locks. (I'm one of them.) Some schools don't cover them much and some schools wait until the higher belt levels to spend much time on them. Schools that focus on competition with the gi may mostly limit practice to just those leg locks which are legal under IBJJF rules.

When I'm teaching, I'll usually just show straight ankle locks to the white belts. I save the more dangerous locks (heel hooks, toe holds, calf slicers & knee bars) for blue belts and above.

 

[jezr74]

Thanks, I better make the most of it while it lasts then.

Why is it left to later in some schools, is it considered that it's potentially more damaging then arms during practice?

 

[Blindside]

If you get a heel hook on me, I'll tap quickly, those come on so fast that there is little warning and I already strained my MCL once from those. Straight ankle lock I feel more comfortable putting up with the pain.

 

[drop bear]

Yeah. It depends on the guy doing it.

when we do leg locks we tend to slow the pace down because if you twist the wrong way you can break someone's knee. Which has happened in training.

 

[jezr74]

They may be worried I don't have the right control. Interesting, I should chat to them about it.

 

[Cirdan]

I like the leg locks myself, unfortunately they are not allowed in the BJJ classes at our club.
This might be because most of the students are pretty new, the teacher did not stop me last time when I forgot and put a leg lock anyway, even said it was okay for me to use it but not for them. Would be unfair so I decided not to anyway.

 

[Hanzou]

My school doesn't allow leg locks until blue belt due to safety concerns. The issue is that if you don't tap quickly enough, you can do permanent damage to your legs. White belts, (bless their hearts), tend to wait way too long to tap, and that can be very dangerous when it comes to leg locks.

As for arms vs legs, its simple; If you hyperextend your elbow, you just got a sore arm for a day or two. You can let it rest, and it'll heal faster. If you hyperextend your knee or ankle its going to be a problem because you have to constantly put pressure on both.

BJJ schools should be teaching leg locks. They're far too effective to ignore.

 

[drop bear]

I like the leg locks myself, unfortunately they are not allowed in the BJJ classes at our club.
This might be because most of the students are pretty new, the teacher did not stop me last time when I forgot and put a leg lock anyway, even said it was okay for me to use it but not for them. Would be unfair so I decided not to anyway.

just be really ready to let it go. It is often not the lock but their escape that can do the damage.

 

[Tony Dismukes]

Why is it left to later in some schools, is it considered that it's potentially more damaging then arms during practice?

1) Some of them can be more dangerous (especially the twisting locks) because you don't get warning pain before actual damage sets in. Also, some leg locks can inflict damage which will not heal without surgery.
2) Leg locks can upset the usual BJJ paradigm of establishing position (passing guard in this case) before submission. Some instructors are concerned that students won't develop a good guard passing game if they can just start grabbing for leg locks.
3) There used to be a prejudice among some BJJ practitioners that leg locks were somehow some kind of cheap shot. (I've read accounts of people being booed for winning by leg lock in tournaments.) I think that outlook has mostly gone away, but the legacy of the attitude is that some schools don't practice leg locks as much as they should.

 

[KydeX]

As for arms vs legs, its simple; If you hyperextend your elbow, you just got a sore arm for a day or two.

Not necessarily. I hyperextended my elbow almost two years ago, and it still bothers me to some extent. But I agree that the risk is higher with Leglocks.

 

[Buka]

They are a great, practical submission, IMO. I know very little about them, other than a few basics, though.

But, man, they are seriously scary when you get caught in them.

 

[Brian R. VanCise]

Love leg locks, the BJJ training halls I have been in all allowed them. However, defenses for leg locks are not always taught and that is the biggest problem or area of concern when training I was lucky in that we learned the defenses very early on and that really helps any practitioner.

 

[Hanzou]

Interestingly, I heard that Judo doesn't teach much in the way of leglocks, due to the rules of the sport.

 

[AlphaBJJ]

Leg locks, as mentioned, vary in application school to school. Most of the good arguments have been covered here. For me, and my two cents, I like them, I think you need to train them BUT working them too early will result in a stunted development of an open guard game.

Think about it, your a new blue belt. You've just got your hip and contact control to the point where playing a lot of open guard will benefit your game. Now, just as you start to learn the variation of it, a white or blue belt decides to crank ankle locks every chance he gets. What are you going to do to respond?

Not what will a purple or brown belt do, they should work on honing their already developed open guard game to deal. But what about the blue belt who hasn't developed it yet?

Chances are, they'll stop trying to use it. Then, later when they should be honing they are still struggling to make up the ground.

So, do I teach leg locks at all ranks? Yes. As Tony stated before, starting with straight ankle locks and progressing. However, I generally don't let white and blue belts use them open roll. This allows them to first develop an open guard, a position I deem far more central to BJJ than ANY attacks. This way, they are familiar with them, can work them in class and are prepared when they hit purple to start working them in open mat ALSO they have a good core open guard that they can now learn to expand to deal with the leg locks that will be thrown at it.

For me, its a progression that works. I'm not going to say its the only way to do things. Clearly it's not and lots of really good people will have disagreements about it. That's fine. It is the way that's worked for me.

 

[punisher73]

I won't recover what has been said about why some allow them and some don't.

But, there is another side that I have heard in BJJ circles. They don't like leg locks because they feel it is "dirty fighting" and it is a cheap way to win. I have mainly heard this from Gracie circles/lineages. I realize that this also will vary from school to school and isn't meant to be a "broad brush", just pointing out that some feel this way.

 

[Spookey]

Blessed my previous Judo Coach and Current BJJ Instructor both have a love for sambo.

While they are not all safe for all practitioners to utilize in randori, they are plenty handy to have in the tool box!

Have you guys seen Marcin Held in Bellator? #FootLocker

 

[Sub Zero]

I won't recover what has been said about why some allow them and some don't.

But, there is another side that I have heard in BJJ circles. They don't like leg locks because they feel it is "dirty fighting" and it is a cheap way to win. I have mainly heard this from Gracie circles/lineages. I realize that this also will vary from school to school and isn't meant to be a "broad brush", just pointing out that some feel this way.

I've read of many BJJ players state that sentiment. I recall a classmate say chokes are dirty and unmanly. Some people have differing views on whats acceptable. It one of those things that is played by ear.

 

[AlphaBJJ]

We spent our week working leg attacks, in our weekly recap we talk about some straight ankle lock mechanics and while we do that, we talk about about this topic:

 

[Brian King]

Nice video AlphaBJJ. Thanks for posting it.

Regards
Brian King