Learned to defend himself from watching MMA...

[Bill Mattocks]

Hmmm...

http://www.nydailynews.com/ny_local/2011/02/13/2011-02-13_my_deadly_battle_with_madman_victim.html

At first, I thought this was a story of a MMA fighter who stopped the accused murderer...then not so much...

He came eye to eye with a killer - and decided it wasn't time for him to die.
Instead, Joseph Lozito, a 6-foot-2, 270-pound mixed martial arts buff, helped bring knife-wielding maniac Maksim Gelman's deadly rampage to a shrieking halt aboard a subway train.
"I wasn't going to go down without a fight," Lozito said Sunday from his bed at Bellevue Hospital. "I took his best shots, and I am still standing."

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...

Thanks to his many hours of watching mixed martial arts on television, Lozito says he "took him down" with a single leg sweep.
"I wouldn't win any style points for taking him down, but it did the job," he said.

Read more: http://www.nydailynews.com/ny_local..._battle_with_madman_victim.html#ixzz1DxR7NCB7
​

​

I am certainly glad the man survived, and I am glad the accused murderer was arrested; but I'm wondering if watching MMA on TV was really a good training device here?

 

[ballen0351]

At least he did something. How many others on that train sat there and watched.

 

[bushidomartialarts]

Three thoughts:

1. Watching martial arts on TV isn't what I'd recommend for training
2. At 6'2" and 270, I suspect it wasn't just his MMA viewing that did the job

but...

3. Confidence is more important than many other factors when surviving street violence. If watching MMA made him believe he could do the job, then maybe watching it on TV did indeed do the trick.

 

[Bruno@MT]

I think the fact that he was 6'2" and 270lbs was more important than having watched MMA a lot. That said kudos to him for doing something.

At least he did something. How many others on that train sat there and watched.

Don't know. I've said it before and I'll say it again: if my kids are with me, me first priority is their safety. All the rest is a distant second, including your wellbeing. That doesn't mean I won't try to do something, like call 911, distract the guy, take his pic with my cellphone, etc...

But I would have to be confident that my kids would be safe before I'd confront the attacker directly.

 

[Aiki Lee]

I'm glad he managed to take him down. Thank goodness he didn't freeze in that circumstance.

Watching the MMA fights may have given him an idea how to knock a guy down. I wouldn't consider it training by any means, but it may have given him a better shot at knowing what to do than he would have had without watching.

 

[ballen0351]

Don't know. I've said it before and I'll say it again: if my kids are with me, me first priority is their safety. All the rest is a distant second, including your wellbeing. That doesn't mean I won't try to do something, like call 911, distract the guy, take his pic with my cellphone, etc...

But I would have to be confident that my kids would be safe before I'd confront the attacker directly.

I agree with that. Im a cop but if Im off duty and my kids are with me Im not getting involved unless my kids are in danger

 

[Kittan Bachika]

I think it is admirable with what this guy did. And I agree that his size and weight was probably a bigger factor than watching MMA on the UFC.

But for argument's sake, let's say he had some MMA training. I think he still would have suffered the same injuries since the attacker was armed with a knife and was completely out of his mind.

I am not criticizing MMA in anyway. I know some MMA fightes who could hold their own in a street fight. But I think there is a problem if people get the impression that MMA is a style that is suited for self defense. MMA is a sport. A very hard and painful sport. But a sport nonetheless. It is one thing to take on a trained opponent in the ring with a refere to break things up when it gets rough. But it is a whole another story when you are dealing with a knife wielding maniac who has every intention to put you on the list of people he has just killed.

This man was very lucky and could have easily have died from the wounds on his head.

And this applies to all arts whether it is Karate or Kung Fu or Tae Kwon Do. One of the important principles of self defense is about stacking the deck in your favor, but sometimes you run into someone who has an ace in the hole.

 

[MJS]

Well, first and foremost, my hat goes off to the guy. As others said, at least he did something, of course, situation depending, it may've been better to call 911. Given the fact that this nutjob stabbed a number of people and ended up killing some of them, this guy could've been a statistic too. Fortunately he wasn't.

Hopefully though, this doesnt (although I'm sure it will) give all of the at home, video/dvd people a crutch to use in defense of home training. This guy seems to have a love of MMA. Hopefully he'll have the desire to get into a MMA gym and get some real training.

 

[Daniel Sullivan]

Chalk one up for the good guys! And I'm always happy for positive publicity for the martial arts, regardless of style.

Daniel

 

[LuckyKBoxer]

Sure it could help.
As a kid I watched sunday Morning Kung Fu theater and tried to repeat the moves.
a few years later I got into a fight with a much older and taller kid, and managed to kick him in the face to end the fight.
I never would have gotten that if I had not watched those cheesy movies.
This was over a decade before I ever took classes.
while I dont think video learning can do alot for the vast majority of people I do think that watching and mentally evaluating what a person sees can in fact give them a step up in some physical skills, and definitely some mental skills when it comes to go time.

 

[sgtmac_46]

Hmmm...

http://www.nydailynews.com/ny_local/2011/02/13/2011-02-13_my_deadly_battle_with_madman_victim.html


...

Read more: http://www.nydailynews.com/ny_local..._battle_with_madman_victim.html#ixzz1DxR7NCB7
​

[/color][/left]

I am certainly glad the man survived, and I am glad the accused murderer was arrested; but I'm wondering if watching MMA on TV was really a good training device here?

Good training device as compared to what? Did it work?

Nothing succeeds like success.........yeah, he could have spent hours and hours training like the rest of us.......but the fact that he applied successfully something he only saw on TV illustrates how effective those techniques are.

 

[sgtmac_46]

Most of the 'DVD/At Home training doesn't work' crowd are, of course, teachers, instructors and trainers who really don't want folks training at home for quite a few other reasons, some of them economic.

That having been said, one needs a realistic understanding of what such DVD's can and cannot impart. Certain training principles and techniques can be imparted. Are they as effective as would be imparted in a dojo or school? No. Are they effective without training with a live partner? No.

But, the reality is that many folks live in places where many of the skills they wish to be taught are available in a training school.......where I grew up, the choice was TKD or TKD.......neither of which I was remotely interested in.

So, I began studying boxing and wrestling with the guys I found who knew a little, began reading books and watching training videos, and when I could find one, attending seminars.

Ultimately I was able to attend formal training schools in Judo, Daito Ryu aikijujitsu, FMA's, and a few others.

But looking back, what I learned in the backyard training with buddies from what we could piece together from books and videos, much of it I still use!


The reality is that there are martial artists who are completely physical, who foo foo training books and videos, believing only physical action is important in martial arts. Some of us are more cerebral, and while acknowledging the importance of the physical actions, one should consider that Bruce Lee, for example, had an extensive library of books and films on philosophy and martial arts that he read and watched voraciously..........he used to drive people nuts who came over to his house watching and dissecting films of boxers.

Where the pure emphasis on physically reproducing the training actions of a particular instructor limits one is the lack of exposure to a larger world that a more ecclectic approach presents........I respect and admire many of the teachers who have taken their time to attempt to impart their knowledge on me........but no single one of them had the exact path for me personally mapped out.

 

[Kacey]

I am certainly glad the man survived, and I am glad the accused murderer was arrested; but I'm wondering if watching MMA on TV was really a good training device here?

I would say that defending oneself is certainly a better choice than not defending oneself - and most attackers, especially armed attackers, tend to assume that no one will fight back, which puts those who do at an advantage - but I would be concerned with people who think that just watching, without any practice, will have as beneficial effect as actual practice. I would be most concerned with the false confidence inspired by watching, but I think it beats standing idly by while others are attacked, or allowing fear to immobilize oneself while being attacked.

 

[sgtmac_46]

I would say that defending oneself is certainly a better choice than not defending oneself - and most attackers, especially armed attackers, tend to assume that no one will fight back, which puts those who do at an advantage - but I would be concerned with people who think that just watching, without any practice, will have as beneficial effect as actual practice. I would be most concerned with the false confidence inspired by watching, but I think it beats standing idly by while others are attacked, or allowing fear to immobilize oneself while being attacked.

When the moment of truth comes, you meet it with what you brought, not what you wish you had brought.

 

[Daniel Sullivan]

Most of the 'DVD/At Home training doesn't work' crowd are, of course, teachers, instructors and trainers who really don't want folks training at home for quite a few other reasons, some of them economic.

A lot depends on the person in my opinion. Also on the nature of the material. I am very, very visual. I learn very well by watching. But I can also visualize, so when someone tells me how to do something, I can furnish the visual in my head.

Now, I have many years of training, so I know what I'm visualizing, but the fact remains that as a visual learner, most of what I have learned in class I have learned through watching the instructor. I see it, I do it, and it works.

The catch is that there are some techniques that I just couldn't get right away, and worse, some that I thought I got but didn't. 90% of the material I got visually. The rest required a lengthy amount of time with my instructor, patient partners, and my kids who are both hapkido and kumdo practitioners to practice with at home. Eventually, the light bulb would go off and I'd get it.

It is that ten percent that always makes me a bit leery of video learning for beginners. And it wasn't all advanced stuff either; just something that, for whatever reason, didn't click right away. For someone who isn't a visual learner, that ten percent will be more like twenty to sixty.

Anyway, the gent saw it on television and was able to put it into use. Most importantly, he did something.

Daniel

 

[sgtmac_46]

A lot depends on the person in my opinion. Also on the nature of the material. I am very, very visual. I learn very well by watching. But I can also visualize, so when someone tells me how to do something, I can furnish the visual in my head.

Now, I have many years of training, so I know what I'm visualizing, but the fact remains that as a visual learner, most of what I have learned in class I have learned through watching the instructor. I see it, I do it, and it works.

The catch is that there are some techniques that I just couldn't get right away, and worse, some that I thought I got but didn't. 90% of the material I got visually. The rest required a lengthy amount of time with my instructor, patient partners, and my kids who are both hapkido and kumdo practitioners to practice with at home. Eventually, the light bulb would go off and I'd get it.

It is that ten percent that always makes me a bit leery of video learning for beginners. And it wasn't all advanced stuff either; just something that, for whatever reason, didn't click right away. For someone who isn't a visual learner, that ten percent will be more like twenty to sixty.

Anyway, the gent saw it on television and was able to put it into use. Most importantly, he did something.

Daniel

Oh, I agree, it certainly isn't for everyone........there was another thread on learning styles........a kinesthetic learner would not only NOT get much from a video, but he'd likely have no interest in them.........many martial artists are kinesthetic learners, thus their disdain.

Me, i'm an auditory learner.........I learn best by grasping the overall concepts FIRST, then practicing the individual techniques........so I would do best watching a video ABOUT the subject matter i'm about to learn..........then studying it under the guidance of an instructor after grasping the framework.

 

[chinto]

he survived, that is the bottom line.

That said, well he would have fared better i think with some real training... but at least he did react and did so in a manner that led to his living through the attack.

its amazing how many people will sit there and let some one hurt them. I do not understand it, but it does happen.
( I hope it does not turn out to be a tragedy some years in the future that the attacker with the knife survived. as if declaired not responsible might get out and go try and hurt the man again in revenge, or kill others again.)

 

[sgtmac_46]

he survived, that is the bottom line.

That said, well he would have fared better i think with some real training... but at least he did react and did so in a manner that led to his living through the attack.

its amazing how many people will sit there and let some one hurt them. I do not understand it, but it does happen.
( I hope it does not turn out to be a tragedy some years in the future that the attacker with the knife survived. as if declaired not responsible might get out and go try and hurt the man again in revenge, or kill others again.)

I think it was Patton who said "A good plan, violently executed now, is better than a perfect plan next week."

 

[ETinCYQX]

I do have to admit to applying stuff I see in MMA while rolling, but one would need an understanding of what's going on there. Obviously I don't know how much this man knows about the mechanics of martial arts, but before training Judo I didn't understand a thing about the ground game and certainly wouldn't have been able to use anything I saw.

 

[sgtmac_46]

I do have to admit to applying stuff I see in MMA while rolling, but one would need an understanding of what's going on there. Obviously I don't know how much this man knows about the mechanics of martial arts, but before training Judo I didn't understand a thing about the ground game and certainly wouldn't have been able to use anything I saw.

Can't argue with success.