Kung fu guy vs Mexican (what style is it)?

[Drunken_Boxer]

^^^ Just seen this street fight between an kung fu guy and a wannabe gangster...and I think its "hung gar" the tiger style, what do u guys think about this?

Wow the guy in red shirt can fight, great stance, and the wannabe gangster deserved it.

 

[Empty Hands]

Oh yeah, this one is a classic. I don't share your high opinion of the guy in red though. His stance was far too deep for decent mobility, his guard was low with one hand chambered doing nothing useful, and his strikes/blocks involved a whole lot of wide out flailing. A decent fighter would have killed him with all those huge openings he gave away, not to mention his legs were highly vulnerable in that deep stance.

Of course, he won, so I shouldn't complain too much. At the end of the day, that is what matters.

 

[Sagat]

My net at work is surfcontrolled. But I'm sure I know which video you're talking about.

It's been on there for a looong time.

I think it's laughable. Had the 'gangsta' had any experience in fighting [not neccessarily martial arts but even been in some brawls] he would've made short work of that Kung Fu guy.

The Kung Fu guy's stance is COMPLETELY out dated, a hard leg kick to his front leg would be extremely painful, despite the majority if not all of his weight being on his back leg, his thigh is fully exposed. Then to side step around him and get control of his back would be fairly easy, again due to his impractical stance.

Also, when the kung fu dude, does that wanky side step, crossing one leg over the other, I'd be rushing at him, if he didn't fall over backward in a panic, I'd be slamming him myself....and I'm not much of a wrestler, but crossing your legs like that is just stupid! I know there was a little distance between them, but that gap could be bridged fairly quickly

I agree the 'gangsta' had it coming and it was well deserved, but anyone who's had some street experience will tell you, the kung fu guy was lucky his opponent was so inexperienced.

If someone adopted a stance like that to me.....I'd laugh at them, then knock em out.

 

[Drunken_Boxer]

My net at work is surfcontrolled. But I'm sure I know which video you're talking about.

It's been on there for a looong time.

I think it's laughable. Had the 'gangsta' had any experience in fighting [not neccessarily martial arts but even been in some brawls] he would've made short work of that Kung Fu guy.

The Kung Fu guy's stance is COMPLETELY out dated, a hard leg kick to his front leg would be extremely painful, despite the majority if not all of his weight being on his back leg, his thigh is fully exposed. Then to side step around him and get control of his back would be fairly easy, again due to his impractical stance.

Also, when the kung fu dude, does that wanky side step, crossing one leg over the other, I'd be rushing at him, if he didn't fall over backward in a panic, I'd be slamming him myself....and I'm not much of a wrestler, but crossing your legs like that is just stupid! I know there was a little distance between them, but that gap could be bridged fairly quickly

I agree the 'gangsta' had it coming and it was well deserved, but anyone who's had some street experience will tell you, the kung fu guy was lucky his opponent was so inexperienced.

If someone adopted a stance like that to me.....I'd laugh at them, then knock em out.

Hey nice fantasie u got right there...I can say too what I would do to my opponent if I face him, but when u get in a real fight, u totally get confused, nervous, its easy to say "I would do this, I would do that" nahh, I know what Im talkin about.

You said his kung fu stance is outdated? How come, and who said that?

Every guy should practice martial arts for his own good, I respect this guy for what he did, he got big balls for comin out with this "kung fu stance" (probably hung gar), yeah the opponent was not experiecend in fighting, but look if he was I think this guy in red shirt would do this same kung fu stance.
Ive seen a guy who did an 540° kick to a guy, didnt knocked him down of course, but he was hella scared, afraid, and was like "wtf was that?", it doenst have to be a "540° kick" it also can be any kung fu style, monkey style, eagle claw, drunken boxing, or other styles like taekwondo, karate, jiu jitsu, the fact is people gettin scared (martial artist) when they come to a real street fight, gettin confused, stoned, and ashamed to do what they did learn in the dojo.

 

[thardey]

Hey nice fantasie u got right there...I can say too what I would do to my opponent if I face him, but when u get in a real fight, u totally get confused, nervous, its easy to say "I would do this, I would do that" nahh, I know what Im talkin about.

You said his kung fu stance is outdated? How come, and who said that?

Every guy should practice martial arts for his own good, I respect this guy for what he did, he got big balls for comin out with this "kung fu stance" (probably hung gar), yeah the opponent was not experiecend in fighting, but look if he was I think this guy in red shirt would do this same kung fu stance.
Ive seen a guy who did an 540° kick to a guy, didnt knocked him down of course, but he was hella scared, afraid, and was like "wtf was that?", it doenst have to be a "540° kick" it also can be any kung fu style, monkey style, eagle claw, drunken boxing, or other styles like taekwondo, karate, jiu jitsu, the fact is people gettin scared (martial artist) when they come to a real street fight, gettin confused, stoned, and ashamed to do what they did learn in the dojo.

The lower your center of gravity, the more power you generate.
The higher the center of gravity, the more mobility you have.

The low/wide stances are generally considered "outdated" for street fighting because generally, footwork is crucial to survival. Sagat didn't just make that stuff up -- it's well known that defenses for the legs, and mobility are weaknesses of the wide stances.

The low stances are still practiced for sparring because kicks to the legs and thighs aren't allowed, and therefore you don't have to worry about protecting them, and high kicks are encouraged - in some sparring competitions, kicks are worth more points that punches. Low stances can be helpful for this.

Crossing the legs is always a bad idea - it's up there with lowering your guard, or blocking a punch with your nose.

Now, I have no problem with using these techniques in a fight, but only in a transitional use. That is, I won't stand there in a low stance, but I will move into one if I need to deliver a powerful strike. Since most of my strategy depends on footwork, that will be rare. Also, I would rather scare/confuse the guy by surprising him with a sudden "traditional" move. I would rather appear untrained, and then surprise him that way.

The low stances, and "hard" style practice is there to teach you how generate power and to use your body efficiently. In a fight, many teachers (Musashi, Marrozzo, Thibault), will tell you to forget your training stances, and move fluidly.

Chuck Norris learned, and still teaches, hard-style traditional karate, but go back and watch his old fights -- he moves smoothly.

 

[tellner]

With all the things he did wrong there are three things he did right.

He showed up for the fight ready to fight
He had a planned, practiced response
He knocked the other guy out

Those two pretty much give the **** to every single criticism the armchair generals flapping their gums on MT

 

[thardey]

With all the things he did wrong there are three things he did right.

He showed up for the fight ready to fight
He had a planned, practiced response
He knocked the other guy out

Those two pretty much give the **** to every single criticism the armchair generals flapping their gums on MT

And #4

He got lucky.

 

[Tames D]

It's amazing how people like to over analyze fighting. As ugly and amateurish as it looked, he knocked the ****er out. Good enough for me.

 

[wade]

Wait for it............................ OK, so his stance was wrong, his technique was wrong, his, wait, wait a minute. He took what he knew to the street and at that time at that place it freaking worked. So, all of you that say how wrong he was, how many of you have done what he did? Me, I loved it. I think it was freaking awesome. IT WORKED!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Nuff said.

 

[kidswarrior]

I don't want to pile on, so will just say I agree with those who point out the kung fu kid won the fight, so what else matters? No style points when there are no refs or judges around.

The other thing I was glad to see is, the wangster's friends didn't all jump in (or any of them--even just one harassing Red T Shirt from behind could have taken his concentration at critical times and been dangerous), and this happens way too often in my experience.

So, one on one, the kung fu kid was the better man. Case closed.

 

[7starmarc]

Since we're in the self-defense section, I'd like to point out a couple of other things.

1. He allowed himself to be goaded into a fight. There was clearly no reason aside from pride to be matching up at that point.

2. He took a fighting pose too soon. Sure, it might have intimidated his opponent, but that could also scare him or his friends into doing something rash, like drawing a weapon or piling on. Also, it clued his opponent into some possible training. A prepared opponent is a more dangerous one.

3. There were two points (when they were still separated) that I was concerned for the KF guy. One when the other guy bent down to his shoe/sock, the other when the guy tucked his shirt in behind his back. Either of those could have been opportunities to draw a weapon (particularly after he was intimidated by the KF posing).

4. One thing I really liked was that he continued to survey his surroundings. I assume that he was making sure he wouldn't be jumped from behind. Always good to have some awareness of possible "helpers".

 

[Sagat]

Hey nice fantasie u got right there...I can say too what I would do to my opponent if I face him, but when u get in a real fight, u totally get confused, nervous, its easy to say "I would do this, I would do that" nahh, I know what Im talkin about.

You said his kung fu stance is outdated? How come, and who said that?

Every guy should practice martial arts for his own good, I respect this guy for what he did, he got big balls for comin out with this "kung fu stance" (probably hung gar), yeah the opponent was not experiecend in fighting, but look if he was I think this guy in red shirt would do this same kung fu stance.
Ive seen a guy who did an 540° kick to a guy, didnt knocked him down of course, but he was hella scared, afraid, and was like "wtf was that?", it doenst have to be a "540° kick" it also can be any kung fu style, monkey style, eagle claw, drunken boxing, or other styles like taekwondo, karate, jiu jitsu, the fact is people gettin scared (martial artist) when they come to a real street fight, gettin confused, stoned, and ashamed to do what they did learn in the dojo.

I've got news for you mate, sounds like you're the one living in fantasy land.
I pointed out obvious weaknesses in his stance, openings for his opponent. Clearly you are inexperienced in REAL fighting. When you become EXPERIENCED in fighting you'll realise that even on the street if you see openings as blatently obvious like those of the KF guy i.e front leg nearly fully outstretched, you'll act upon them, regardless of fear or adrenaline.

I chose the most natural and most effective way I would attack him based on where he left himself vulnerable to attack and the techniques I am most familiar with. Forget the technique, what I may do could change to anything, point is I'd still take advantage of those openings.

Who said his stance is out-dated? - I say his stance is out-dated. How come and why you ask? If you can't see extreme flaws in his stance then I wouldn't expect you to understand anything I say. It's o.k, you'll learn one day, hopefully not the hard way for your sake

Getting totally confused? Yes, beginners may experience this, just like they may feel the need to shake the other guys hand afterwards due to the massive adrenaline dump many people experience in fighting. But after you've been in more than a few punch-ons you'll get a rapid heart beat. Not trying to blow my own whistle but I work security, so I'm used to getting in and breaking up fights. I can tell you that if I had become "totally confused" when put in the line of fire, I wouldn't be here today.



A 540 degree kick? Yeah? I would die of embarressment if I ever got hit by such a kick, talk about f^#in telegraphing. LOL!!!

Relying on people to be scared of you by simply adopting a stance is idiotic, eventually you'll come across someone still wanting to fight you, then you'll have to walk the walk. Most of the time, you won't get a chance to get into your stance, the fight will start when you get attacked or when you attack.

Once again, terrible fight, stance is out-dated, the KF guy got lucky.

 

[thardey]

If we're not supposed to be critiquing and learning from what I hope was a "real world" situation, then what are we talking about here?

Nobody's going to argue that he won the fight, he did a good job for what situation he was in. He does know how to fight.

But what's the point of posting something like that in a "Self Defense" forum if we're not supposed to pick it apart and figure out how he could have done it better? It's not like he's here, looking for praise.

Of course, I don't want this to turn in to youtube comments, with a bunch of posers bragging about how he would "bust his ***, and his sister's for the trouble he caused me, blah, blah, blah." But I look at these forums as a collection of well-trained, serious people who have good insights into situations like this. Plus there is enough of a cross-section of styles to keep each other accountable.

Okay, he did good, he knocked the punk out, how does that help me?

Is that an argument for a traditional stance on the street? Or was it something else? What can I use, and what should be eliminated?

"I'm in this for one person sweetheart: me!"

I'm not here to make "him" feel good about his style, nor am I here to make myself feel better because I can pick on his mistakes. I want to learn, which means I will analyze and compare what I've learned with what I saw.

What I saw:
1. He was able to control the pacing of the fight, and was ready for the attack.

2. He redirected the opponents swings, and used the energy to keep him over-committed.

3. His situational awareness was good.

4. By the time the fight was actually engaged, he had dropped his "kung-fu" stance, and was shifting his weight to the left and right, almost in a boxer stance. (Notice, the closer the range, the higher and more relaxed his stance became.)

5. Looking closer at the "crossing the legs move" - he didn't actually cross his legs in a way that would have tangled himself up, but was more of a "reactionary stance" that looked out of place in that context. Maybe he thought the other guy was about to charge.

6. While his "shuffle steps" may have looked silly, he used them to flick his front foot out in a warning "jab". It could have been part of the reason the "gansta" kept his distance for so long.

 

[Sagat]

I don't deny it, the KF guy won. Well done.

But I saw too many flaws that, had they been taken advantage of, would have cost him the fight.

The day this guy comes up against someone who knows what he's doing, he'll be in all sorts of strife.

To street fight with your chin pretty much unguarded, and in such a deep stance is staright away giving your opponent an advantage. Just to clarify for Drunken Boxer, giving your opponent advantages is bad ;-]

 

[ackks10]

the girl looked nice, thats about the only thing:uhoh: