kung fu and weakspots

[weepingpalm]

i've been studying kung fu for a while now. it has occurred to me that i know nothing about ground fighting, which makes it my biggest weakspot. in my several years of training(lung ying, lung shou pai) i have spent little or no time on this, and in the event i should end up "down", theres good chance i would lose. basically, im wondering if any of you have noticed "weakspots" in how you train, why and what you do to overcome them.

 

[clfsean]

Who do you study lung ying with?

 

[weepingpalm]

clfsean, i trained under sifu santos in az. currently, i sometimes meet with sifu pena. both are currently training with sifu martin.

 

[clfsean]

Gotcha... I've heard of Sifu Martin.

 

[grappling_mandala]

The best way is to isolate your weakspot by finding someone who will exploit it, and then train and learn from them. Where are you located? You should find a grappling school in your area, go to them see if they are cool or agro, and if they are cool (laidback) tell them your delimma and that you need help. Most cool people will be glad to help you out. Just remember, leave the ego and the door, grappling is an athletic sport and people sweat a lot and get into it, but you will learn so much so fast in a live environment.

Email me if you want

Dave Copeland
Beaverton SBGi
sbg.technical-journal.com

 

[still learning]

Hello, When fighting on the ground it will always be " Anything goes". Do you feel you will be actully grappling. Or will you be trying to get up? and If on the ground there is eye gouging, biting, diging in the skin,head butting, ripping ears off, breaking fingers,elbows in the soft spots, striking any place you can.

Judo is good. ..........................Aloha

 

[grappling_mandala]

"Or will you be trying to get up?"

One of the most primary movements in grappling is the shrimp which can also translate into a "technical stand". This is a way of bracing or creating a frame that acts as a core foundation or "delivery system" for any number of possible attacks and defenses.

Biting, eye gouging etc etc etc is only as good as your foundation allows you to delivery or transmit power. Don't be afraid to train on the ground, even if it's learning how to get up. I have had guys focus on trying to pinch me, use pressure points, etc etc etc.... the fact of the matter is that if you don't work on your CORE fundamentals and someone else has, no matter what targets you attack, it will be less effective then the individual who focuses on their core positioning and power transmission.

I have heard the same argument over and over and over about biting and eye gouging. I'm not saying it would work, even Labell has been known to bite people when it came down to people actually wanting to "test" him or fight on-set, etc... BUT... using that as an excuse to disregard training on ground mechanics?

Dave Copeland
Beaverton SBGi
sbg.technical-journal.com

 

[grappling_mandala]

"Hello, When fighting on the ground it will always be " Anything goes". PS- When FIGHTING anything goes. When training? Personally I focus on the core, and add punches, kicks, bites, eye gouges as the situation dictates. But the core is the most important, how your hips respond in relationship to the 8 directions of movement.

Dave

 

[Ubermint]

To clarify, Mandala means positioning, which is the core of groundfighting. If you can't escape from bad positions (under mounts, back taken, pass guard) and mantain good ones (top/side/back mount, guard) then you can't fight on the ground.

 

[Sigung86]

Maybe, instead of worrying about a weak spot and running off to cross train, that is if you are happy with your current training milieu, perhaps you might try talking to your shrfu and see what he has to say. Sometimes, what you aren't getting right now doesn't mean that you are not going to get it. It may simply mean that the emphasis isn't immediately on ground training.

Depending on which style you are studying (I'm not familiar with the style you named), there may be more of an emphasis on stand up fighting, kicking and striking, as opposed to ground fighting. It is, after all, not strictly a grappling art, I would assume, not a Chin Na art, but still Kung fu.

Granted, many people are running to BJJ or what-have-you to fill in perceived weak spots, and they may not be there, other than in your hurry to become the ultimate self defense expert/fighter. Kind of curious to see if anyone can come up with their own answers based on what style they are working, as opposed to running off elsewhere to find what they may, in fact, have in their head already. :boing2:

 

[Bod]

Agreed.

In kung fu they teach you stance first, not biting and gouging.

Same in ground fighting - stance first.

First try to avoid getting taken down. This takes practice. It takes a good low stance - check out Royler Gracie's submission grappling stance - it looks very like your standard kung fu 60-40 stance.

Second get some grappling training to learn hw to turn bad situations into good ones.

 

[weepingpalm]

thanks to those who have replied. your advice on seeking out school to train my "weakspot" is appreciated. ultimately though, i originally posted this thread as a currious question. to see if others had noticed any flaws, or personal "weakspots" in their training. understand im not looking to badger other sytstems or even lung ying, or try to find whats wrong with a system. just making a personal discovery noted and seeing if others would mind sharring their own. nothing more. also, i came across this as a hypothetical situation. if i ended up on the ground in a street fight somehow, i wasnt sure how i would do based on my current training,(no ground fighting exp.) however, hopefully i can avoid that by using the training i already have. so if anyone cares to share, im interested!

 

[lulflo]

We are all martial scientists, and you bring up a great point. I like the idea of adding to that which I learn so that I may bring to the table that which I was unable to learn from my teacher. I would follow a couple of routes previously submitted. Talk to your teacher and identify what you will learn in his training that can counter a grappler/groundfighter. If you find it sufficient, then you are going to become that which you are concerned with. If it is not sufficient for your own ability to teach others how to get out of said situation, then reach out and bring it back to your school as a supplement. If your teacher recognizes your skill as it increases, perhaps you may implement additional training with your instructor's supervision and wisdom.


My situation is somewhat similar. I train in HRD and found that my ground work was lacking, so I go to a fellow HRD school with an instructor that has also been training in BJJ and it has been a blessing to be able to round out my training not only with a BJJ instructor, but the fact that he is also an instructor in my core art HRD. Now I am able to bring back the information/strategy and techniques to my regular class and help other students and even my teachers with the newly acquired skills as I get them.

Good luck to you!

Farang - Larry

 

[jkdhit]

i dont think youd have to be an expert in ground maneuvers but learning a few basics would do a world of good

 

[weepingpalm]

thank you! thats what i was looking to hear. anyone else?

 

[arnisador]

Sparring with someone from anotehr style will expose your weak spots and your blind spots--attacks you can't defend well because you never imagined them coming at you!

 

[weepingpalm]

right! my si bok, whom im currently training with has also studied hung gar and bak mei,( which in alot of ways is similiar to ly) sparring with him has been good as he has caught me off gaurd more than once. surely, sparring with other systems will open your eyes.

 

[jkdhit]

its just like what bruce lee said.. if you stick to one style of fighting or only fight with people in the same style, you stay limited to only that method but if you use or go against other methods then you can modify what you do know or learn more