KT:So Just How Effective (or Useless) Is Sparring in Kenpo Afterall?

[Clark Kent]

So Just How Effective (or Useless) Is Sparring in Kenpo Afterall?
By JayWilson - 06-04-2014 04:25 PM
Originally Posted at: KenpoTalk
====================

In another thread, Sami brought up a very valid perspective, which I'd like to share here:

"Do you know what the difference is between sparring/fighting and being effective? If not let me share my opinion with you. When you are "good" you avoid as best you can trouble, You try not to put yourself in harms way. When you are in an environment and you see potential trouble heading your way, you make for the exit because you are confident in your ability and have no need to prove yourself. Now, even if you work at a job that requires you to get involved in dangerous situations, you still don't wake up in the morning looking forward to beating the crap out of someone, you still try to handle things in a calm and collected manner, you never leave your manners at home. Now, when trouble simply will not let you walk away, when trouble tries to get the drop on you with a surprise attack or when trouble threatens the safety of someone you care about and you find you have to put a stop to trouble, you do just that. You STOP trouble you don't fight trouble, you don't bounce around like a boxer sparring with trouble, not if you're "good" you don't. You STOP trouble by whatever means available but you don't struggle with "trouble," you should not play around with trouble either, like a cat plays with its prey because than you are the trouble too. That is what Kenpo Karate is to me, it is STOPPING trouble without having to spar with it. I don't know if that will reach you or not, generally people like my old friend Steve who love to spar and fight probably don't ascribe to my philosophy, that is OK if you love it so much go ahead and prolong engagements and study "sparring strategies" so you can better fight but that is not for me.

The first thing I usually get when I tell people that is "Oh you must be one of those guys who never spars" Wrong I sparred a great deal and I will spar and "fight" if I meet some Martial Artists who want to but to me it is the furthest thing from where you really want to go, it is doing the opposite of being really effective, it has some minor benefits but for the most part it serves to give people a ton of bad habits especially because they start sparring before they even have clean basics so they just ingrain crappy responses to equally crappy attacks (Oh starting to sound like some of you lol these boards may be contagious)."


So, I'm asking the question - how effective or useless is sparring for learning combative skills?

Personally, I both love sparring and hate it. I love the un-scripted aspect of it, the use of contact to expose or capitalize on openings, etc.

On the other hand, I hate it - especially when it turns into nothing more than heavy-handed slapping and point-sparring crap.

I have three types of sparring: Freestyle, Situational and Padded.

Padded is my least favorite, as it often turns into a point or MMA match.

Freestyle is my favorite - go slow, really pay attention to the range, zones, openings, etc. FEEL more than SEE.

And Situational - which is only limited by my twisted imagination..... We can start on the ground in a grappling scenario and I toss one of the opponents a training blade. We can start one off in a corner, or even in a 'kill box' (a 6x6 foot space surrounded by padded walls that we're building) - basically, come up with some bad situations and work from there.

So yeah....do we spar a lot? No - for me (at this point), sparring develops a lot of good attributes, but if you spar like crap, you'll fight like crap. Then again, what if you spar great and still fight like crap?

Now, I turn the discussion over to ya'll - or..."Cry havok, and let slip the dogs of war!"


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[drop bear]

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=4FTcBWb3XR0

Straight into a sports style sparring\fighting mode hands up bobbing weaving etc.

Works fine. Works fine against numbers works fine against ambush on the street. Not sure what the issue even is.

 

[Native]

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=4FTcBWb3XR0

Straight into a sports style sparring\fighting mode hands up bobbing weaving etc.

Works fine. Works fine against numbers works fine against ambush on the street. Not sure what the issue even is.

I think your video illustrates exactly the OP's point. Those guys are "Sparring with trouble" instead of dealing with it quickly. Dealing with it quickly would be avoiding it, walking away or destroying the threat immediately. That looked a lot like a monkey dance that escalated to mutual combat. And if that style of "fighting" is all you train for, then it sure will be how you act.

 

[drop bear]

I think your video illustrates exactly the OP's point. Those guys are "Sparring with trouble" instead of dealing with it quickly. Dealing with it quickly would be avoiding it, walking away or destroying the threat immediately. That looked a lot like a monkey dance that escalated to mutual combat. And if that style of "fighting" is all you train for, then it sure will be how you act.

Holding off six guys is a pretty good result.

This destroying the threat sounds good in theory. But I don't think it works all that well in application.

But otherwise it is sport fighting transfered directly into a self defence situation. Apparently bulk head punching also works in the street.
http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=hxoOnPIUvfo&has_verified=1&client=mv-google&layout=tablet

 

[Native]

Holding off six guys is a pretty good result.

This destroying the threat sounds good in theory. But I don't think it works all that well in application.

But otherwise it is sport fighting transfered directly into a self defence situation.

It is a good theory, and yes, getting it done would be the hard part. But it's difficult applying that theory to this video because that was not a self defense situation; it was a fight. From my point of view that was sport fighting transferred to street fighting, which worked reasonably well for them. So, I suppose if that is how you plan to deal with a hostile encounter, then you should train that way.. ie, sparring and sport fighting.

I imagine if those two guys were trained martial artists that spent time on deescalation and self defense, which included situational training as the OP mentioned, the encounter would probably have turned out much differently. Ideally it would have been such a non-event it wouldn't have made it onto youtube.

 

[drop bear]

It is a good theory, and yes, getting it done would be the hard part. But it's difficult applying that theory to this video because that was not a self defense situation; it was a fight. From my point of view that was sport fighting transferred to street fighting, which worked reasonably well for them. So, I suppose if that is how you plan to deal with a hostile encounter, then you should train that way.. ie, sparring and sport fighting.

I imagine if those two guys were trained martial artists that spent time on deescalation and self defense, which included situational training as the OP mentioned, the encounter would probably have turned out much differently. Ideally it would have been such a non-event it wouldn't have made it onto youtube.

But it didn't turn out that way. So you don't know de escalation would have worked.
But I do have some de escalation.for you.

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=trrSXpZWhVc