Koto ryu koppojutsu

[DuskB4Dawn]

hi everyone. one thing that I stumbled upon when searching for information on koto ryu is a list of pressure points. well not really pressure points maybe vulnerable spots of the body. I found the names and translation so fascinating. I dont think this is koppojutsu because many are organ and soft tissue strikes.
can anyone tell me more about this please?

Asagiri (Morning Mist) - Bottom of the chin.Butsumetsu (The Day Buddha Died) - Ribs under the chest musclesDaimon (Big Gate) - Middle of shoulder joint.Gorin (Five Rings) - Around the stomach.Happa (Eight Leaves) - Clapping the ears.Hichibatsu (Voice) - Side of the hip.Hiryuran (Flying Dragon Confuser) - Eyes.Hoshizawa (Cliff Of Stars) - Elbow joint. In (Shadow) - Inside the swell of cheekbone.Jakkin (Weak Muscle) - Upper arm between bone & muscle.Jinchu (Center Of The Human) - Base of the nose. Jujiro (Intersection) - Front of the shoulder.Kasumi (Fog, Mist) - Temple.Kinketsu (Tabu Hole) - Sternum.Kosei (Power Of The Tiger) - Groin.Koshitsubo (Hip Pot) - Inside ridge of the hipbone.Kyokei (Strong Tendons) - Top of the foot just above toes.Matsu Kaze (Pinetree Wind) - Just above and below the end of the clavicles.Menbu (Face) - Bridge of the nose.Mura Same (Village Rain) - Notch between the clavicles.Ryu Fu (Willow Wind) - Above & below Adams apple.Ryumon (Dragon Gate) - Under collarbone near shoulder.Sai (Leg) - Inside & Outside of upper leg.Sei (Star) - Directly under the armpit.Shin Chu (Center Of The Heart) - Middle of the chest.Shishiran (Tiger Confuser) - Stomach.Ten To (Top Of The Head) - Soft spot on top of the head.Tenmon (Heavens Gate) - Ridge of the eye socket.Tokotsu (Independent Bone) - Adams apple.Tsuyugasumi (Drop Of Mist) - Under the jaw line.Uko (Door Of Rain) - Side of the neck.Ura Kimon (Outside Devil Opening) - Ribs under pectoral muscle. Wakitsubo (Side Of The Body) - Ribs under the armpit.Yubitsubo (Finger Pot) - Base of the thumb. Yugasumi (Evening Mist) - Soft spot below the ear.

 

[Cryozombie]

I found the names and translation so fascinating. I dont think this is koppojutsu because many are organ and soft tissue strikes.

Why wouldn't that be Koppojutsu?

 

[steelnshadow]

.
can anyone tell me more about this please?

What would you like to know exactly? If they work? If they are true? what happens when you strike them?

 

[Chris Parker]

Hi DuskB4Dawn,

hi everyone. one thing that I stumbled upon when searching for information on koto ryu is a list of pressure points. well not really pressure points maybe vulnerable spots of the body.

The term is Kyusho, and the Koto Ryu list is one of the most extensive in the Ninjutsu traditions. There is also one associated with Takagi Ryu, and the one left by Fujita Seiko is quite good as well.

I found the names and translation so fascinating. I dont think this is koppojutsu because many are organ and soft tissue strikes.
can anyone tell me more about this please?

Hmm, I actually went through a fair amount of detail about exactly what Koppojutsu really is during last class with you, honestly I'm going to suggest paying a little more attention there.

But to recap, the term "Koppojutsu" does not mean "bone breaking", or anything of the kind. The characters themselves translate as "Bone" (Kotsu) "Method" (Ho), and refer to the methods of attacking the solid aspects of the opponent, such as their posture (weakening a stong kamae), attacking the rhythm of their attack (by striking between their strikes), and so on, as well as using strong, solid aspects yourself, as well as the methods of striking, moving, and so forth. It is not exclusively about striking bony targets.

This Koppojutsu in every way, really.

Asagiri (Morning Mist) - Bottom of the chin.Butsumetsu (The Day Buddha Died) - Ribs under the chest musclesDaimon (Big Gate) - Middle of shoulder joint.Gorin (Five Rings) - Around the stomach.Happa (Eight Leaves) - Clapping the ears.Hichibatsu (Voice) - Side of the hip.Hiryuran (Flying Dragon Confuser) - Eyes.Hoshizawa (Cliff Of Stars) - Elbow joint. In (Shadow) - Inside the swell of cheekbone.Jakkin (Weak Muscle) - Upper arm between bone & muscle.Jinchu (Center Of The Human) - Base of the nose. Jujiro (Intersection) - Front of the shoulder.Kasumi (Fog, Mist) - Temple.Kinketsu (Tabu Hole) - Sternum.Kosei (Power Of The Tiger) - Groin.Koshitsubo (Hip Pot) - Inside ridge of the hipbone.Kyokei (Strong Tendons) - Top of the foot just above toes.Matsu Kaze (Pinetree Wind) - Just above and below the end of the clavicles.Menbu (Face) - Bridge of the nose.Mura Same (Village Rain) - Notch between the clavicles.Ryu Fu (Willow Wind) - Above & below Adams apple.Ryumon (Dragon Gate) - Under collarbone near shoulder.Sai (Leg) - Inside & Outside of upper leg.Sei (Star) - Directly under the armpit.Shin Chu (Center Of The Heart) - Middle of the chest.Shishiran (Tiger Confuser) - Stomach.Ten To (Top Of The Head) - Soft spot on top of the head.Tenmon (Heavens Gate) - Ridge of the eye socket.Tokotsu (Independent Bone) - Adams apple.Tsuyugasumi (Drop Of Mist) - Under the jaw line.Uko (Door Of Rain) - Side of the neck.Ura Kimon (Outside Devil Opening) - Ribs under pectoral muscle. Wakitsubo (Side Of The Body) - Ribs under the armpit.Yubitsubo (Finger Pot) - Base of the thumb. Yugasumi (Evening Mist) - Soft spot below the ear.

Yeah, that's the list (for the record, a couple of the points occasionally use slightly different names, such as Asagiri being called Asagasumi on occasion). However, the list doesn't do much by itself, it must be said. All it is for is to guide you through the targeting as found in the kata and the Ryu itself, and you're being exposed to that at present. So you know, this week for you will include the following points:

Jakkin

Nagare

Kyokei

Shichibatsu (listed here as "Hichibatsu")

Sai/Usai

Matsu Kaze and Mura Same (Itto Nito Santo)

Kaku/Yaku (you seem to have missed that one, see if you can spot it this week)

Uko

Okay?

 

[Aiki Lee]

Nice definition of koppojutsu! May I bother you for your definition on koshijutsu as well?

 

[Chris Parker]

Kosshijutsu translates as "Bone" (Kotsu) "Finger" (Shi). This refers to the smaller bones in the fingers and toes, indicating that Kosshi gives a way to use small actions or parts of your body in order to overcome a bigger force. Within Gyokko Ryu, for instance, Kosshijutsu is expressed through the use of small movements just outside of the Uke's balance, in order to defeat them, as well as methods of applying gyaku waza so that a smaller person can use them against someone bigger and stronger.

Even though most look at it as being the use of the finger tips (and toes) dominantly, it's a little interesting to note that Koto Ryu actually uses such methods and fists more than Gyokko does....

 

[Bruno@MT]

Sometime ago my sensei was checking me and the sempai to see if we knew our curriculum, and he asked me about sokushi geri. My explanation: that is when you kick with your foot fingers and ... ehm... yeah I meant toes...

 

[DuskB4Dawn]

so its called Kyusho. thank you sensei Parker. I know you explained Koppojutsu and Kosshijutsu in an older post. but I didn't know it was about your timing and strategy aswell. its very interesting.
I will keep my eyes open tommorow to see if I can make out what Kyusho is used.

it just really helps to have some idea of what the strikes do. and the effect it has.
do you have any links for the Takagi Ryu and Fujita Seiko Kyusho please?
i want to gather all of the Kyusho and compile a list of sorts so I can study it more.
I know i learn this in class but its just something I find interesting and want to study in more detail.

 

[Chris Parker]

No, I hadn't explained Koppo and Kosshi before, only mentioned that they weren't "bone breaking" and "muscle/organ striking". However, I did go through it in class....

In terms of the Kyusho lists for Takagi and Wada-ha Koga Ryu, they are pretty much the same as the Koto list, with different names, one or two added, one or two missing. The Koto list is enough for you. And again, it's in how you use the information, just having it isn't really going to do much. Otherwise it's like saying that because you have a dictionary, which contains all the words you may need, you can write a fantastic novel. It takes a lot more than that....

 

[Troy Wideman]

Hello,

The Kyusho list for Takagi ryu, the general one, is very similar. However, when you receive different levels, there are different lists of pressure points in the ryu ha. There is one list for Shoden Menkyo and and a different list for Chuden Menkyo. These are normally taught from teacher to student, with the direction of pressure being explained.


Kind Regards,

Troy Wideman

 

[Stealthy]

Would someone please help me with identifying a kata from Koto Ryu Koppojutsu?

I've been wracking my brain trying to remember it/them and my notes are not as extensive as I would like them to be so I don't seem to have it written down either.

I am chasing the kata which starts off with the Uke Thrust kicking twice(if there is one).

Is it Tan Geki?

With Respect,
Stealthy.

 

[Dean Whittle]

There is no kata in Koto ryu that involves the attacker kicking.

Tan Geki is a defence against two alternating punches, responding with a fake and a kick.

With respect

 

[Stealthy]

There is no kata in Koto ryu that involves the attacker kicking.

Tan Geki is a defence against two alternating punches, responding with a fake and a kick.

With respect

Thank you.

If I may, are they high, low or alternating punches?

 

[Chris Parker]

The punches are both at Jodan (head height). Technically, aimed between the eyebrows. Kata Maki has variations where it is a Jodan then a Chudan Tsuki (punch).

I know of no kata in any of the Ryu-ha that start with an attack of two kicks. Kukishin Ryu has a range of kata with two kicks after each other (punch, punch, kick, kick, punch etc), but that's as close as I can think of.

 

[Stealthy]

The punches are both at Jodan (head height). Technically, aimed between the eyebrows. Kata Maki has variations where it is a Jodan then a Chudan Tsuki (punch).

I know of no kata in any of the Ryu-ha that start with an attack of two kicks. Kukishin Ryu has a range of kata with two kicks after each other (punch, punch, kick, kick, punch etc), but that's as close as I can think of.

Thank you.

Is it cool to respond with the fake/kick from Tan Geki to handle two thrust kicks?

Is Kata Maki an elbow lock/take down?

 

[Chris Parker]

I'm going to suggest re-attending class for answers such as these. Part of it is that they really shouldn't be posted publicly like this (kind of a "how-to"), but even more importantly, explainations of these concepts are physical in nature. Personally, I wouldn't use a fake/kick (a la Tan Geki) against two kicks for a number of reasons, including the timing, distancing, and so on, but also because I'm really only concerned with realistic attacks and responces. And a double kicking attack is just not common and therefore not realistic. The common way (if ever) a double kicking attack may happen is more like two individual kicks to test range and defences, not two as a sequence (rhythm). And the idea of a fake is to break a rhythm, so if it isn't present, the fake will be limited in it's application.

The only other "double kick" attack I can think of is part of the methods of TKD, and comes up in their tournament and sparring methods, and again that is not common, and therefore not a realistic attack to worry about in the grand scheme of things.

Oh, and Kata Maki can be an elbow lock/take down.... but it's not that by definition. Hmm, that sounds cryptic....

 

[Stealthy]

I'm going to suggest re-attending class for answers such as these. Part of it is that they really shouldn't be posted publicly like this (kind of a "how-to"), but even more importantly, explainations of these concepts are physical in nature. Personally, I wouldn't use a fake/kick (a la Tan Geki) against two kicks for a number of reasons, including the timing, distancing, and so on, but also because I'm really only concerned with realistic attacks and responces. And a double kicking attack is just not common and therefore not realistic. The common way (if ever) a double kicking attack may happen is more like two individual kicks to test range and defences, not two as a sequence (rhythm). And the idea of a fake is to break a rhythm, so if it isn't present, the fake will be limited in it's application.

The only other "double kick" attack I can think of is part of the methods of TKD, and comes up in their tournament and sparring methods, and again that is not common, and therefore not a realistic attack to worry about in the grand scheme of things.

Oh, and Kata Maki can be an elbow lock/take down.... but it's not that by definition. Hmm, that sounds cryptic....

Thanks, that's what I was thinking. There are so many factors that come into play to inhibit the likelihood of two kicks. Figured it was worth asking though to put my mind at ease.

Yes, that does sound cryptic. It is hard enough as it is trying to build a picture of what Ninjutsu is and how it works then you go all Cryptic on me