Knife Defense/Disarm Video Clip

[aiki456]

I was actually not really happy with this video after we shot it because, having only filmed the technique being done slowly, I didn't think it gave the viewer an idea of what a good technique it really is. It has, however, gotten some pretty positive feedback on metacafe so I thought I would share it with you here... http://www.metacafe.com/watch/943652/knife_defense_knife_held_at_side_of_neck/

 

[thardey]

I've learned a similar defense -- I picked it up from Krav Maga--

I like that one a lot, quick, simple, and effective for a bad situation. (Just gotta make sure your hands don't slip!)

 

[Doc_Jude]

Live, it might be a good idea to raise the right arm up at your side, proximal the elbow, and touch the top of your head when you drop the chin. That way, he won't be able to pull the weapon across the throat w/o straightening his arm. The left hand comes up to reinforce that chin clamp & you step to the side. Then you can put the weapon into the throat, the liver, or not. Just hammerlock or whatever.

 

[theletch1]

Haven't seen that one done before. I think we'll work it next class. For the knife in that position I've always liked shihonage out of it.

 

[Guro Harold]

Thanks for sharing the clip!

Also:

Live, it might be a good idea to raise the right arm up at your side, proximal the elbow, and touch the top of your head when you drop the chin. That way, he won't be able to pull the weapon across the throat w/o straightening his arm. The left hand comes up to reinforce that chin clamp & you step to the side. Then you can put the weapon into the throat, the liver, or not. Just hammerlock or whatever.

These are some great points!

Also pushing/popping the elbow in as an early phase counter might allow more room for seizing the weapon hand.

I like the shave block guard as well. The shave block gives a good reference for accessing the weapon hand and keeping the weapon arm checked.

 

[Brian R. VanCise]

It won't open up for me!

That is infuriating as it sounds like a good watch!

 

[arnisador]

Yes, I had trouble with it too! It loaded but wouldn't play.

 

[aiki456]

Thank you for taking the time to watch and provide feedback on the video; it's much appreciated.

To the person that commented that it was similar to a krav maga technique... this is actually a Systema technique but I believe that they are very similar styles.

To the folks that were not able to open the video... have you tried to view any other metacafe videos? I'm wondering if it's a pervasive problem or just a problem with this particular clip.

Thanks again to everyone for the feedback!

Frank

 

[still learning]

Hello, Great stuffs...NOT sure how many people would hold the knife like that to the side of the neck? But it is a possibleablity and your video show a great way to escape!

Aloha,

 

[Bigshadow]

Live, it might be a good idea to raise the right arm up at your side, proximal the elbow, and touch the top of your head when you drop the chin. That way, he won't be able to pull the weapon across the throat w/o straightening his arm. The left hand comes up to reinforce that chin clamp & you step to the side. Then you can put the weapon into the throat, the liver, or not. Just hammerlock or whatever.

Excellent advice about the right arm. I was explaining that to my GF when we watched it. Using the trapped elbow, you may want to try and turn the opposite way into the attacker. Be sure to keep their elbow in the same place and pivot around it. If you pull them around you will give them something to work with. If you want, play with it and see what you can find.

 

[Bodhisattva]

That's a big load of horse ****.

You're going to get people killed teaching them that kind of crap. Honestly.

Let's break it down:

1: Man drops chin to stop attacker from drawing knife across throat.

2: Attacker cuts throat anyway.

3: Man curses his dumb martial arts teacher for selling him phony self-defense techniques for money and curses some more because he won't be around to see his family grow and prosper.

Total horse ****.

 

[Kuk Sa Nim]

That's a big load of horse ****.

You're going to get people killed teaching them that kind of crap. Honestly.

Let's break it down:

1: Man drops chin to stop attacker from drawing knife across throat.

2: Attacker cuts throat anyway.

3: Man curses his dumb martial arts teacher for selling him phony self-defense techniques for money and curses some more because he won't be around to see his family grow and prosper.

Total horse ****.

Wow....I have BIG problems with techniques whenever

1- You are in the line of fire (ie: knife can cut you), and
2- You don't have complete control over the weapon.

Trying to stab someone with their own knife while your throat is still in-between.......This doesn't work for me. I couldn't conceive even training this, much less trying against an angry, motivated opponent using a live blade. Sorry. Knife combat is too dynamic, and there is too much at stake. Try this technique with a marker and the partner is completely un-cooperative (much less pissed off and with evil thoughts). You'll see what I mean.

FWIW, I have been in this position before in the streets. I used an over shoulder throw (after securing the arm down to my chest using both hands) and stomp(s) while taking the knife away. I feel very lucky to have survived.

 

[kailat]

That's a big load of horse ****.

You're going to get people killed teaching them that kind of crap. Honestly.

Let's break it down:

1: Man drops chin to stop attacker from drawing knife across throat.

2: Attacker cuts throat anyway.

3: Man curses his dumb martial arts teacher for selling him phony self-defense techniques for money and curses some more because he won't be around to see his family grow and prosper.

Total horse ****.

As much as i'd like to admit it, I think your correct. There are very few blade techniques of this sort that I think would work in a real life situation.

There are too many " WHAT IF's" that come to mind.

The thing we have to look at when we analyze this technique;
A) the guy holding the knife, if you notice in training his left hand/arm is just hanging there allowing the individual to work the technique. Indefenitly after the one practicing this tech gets it down pat, the guy holding the knife needs to AGGRESSIVLY do everything in his power to NOT let the other guy prove that this technique can and will work.

If there is any reasonable means of doubt that this tech fails even 2 out of 3 times, then it should be discarded as NO GOOD!!

Thats one way I train myself to analyze these situations.

NOW you want to know how I would do this technique? From a kill or be killed position!

As he puts the blade to my throat I would do all that I could to wedge my hand between my throat and the blade at all cost to prevent a fatal slash accross the throat.. WHY? In a position where its my life or his, a cut accross my hand be it front or back is a less than lethal slash that I can live with. Id rather it be my hand than my throat. Then I'd perform a simular technique.

TO ASSUME, that the attacke will not take his free hand and press on your arm, lower back, trap your left arm etc.. is a hard lesson that you would not want to find out if u were to try this in real life.

JUST MY 2cent here.

this is why I don't rely on alot of knife work that seems too good to be true scenario. If your not practicing to get cut or to expect a cut in a knife situation your grossly mistaken and misleading yourself and your training...

 

[Bigshadow]

the guy holding the knife needs to AGGRESSIVLY do everything in his power to NOT let the other guy prove that this technique can and will work.

While I agree with you regarding the training, I would consider that the attacker on the street does not know what you are going to do. In training the "aggressive" attacker can end up "anticipating" what is going to happen (because you just did it 5 times) and completely foil any success in learning a technique. So yes the attacker must be realistic in the attack (taking the defender's balance and trying to limit the defender's options), but at the same time, has to do it with the mind that he does not know what his defender is about to do (that is training for the attacker).

If there is any reasonable means of doubt that this tech fails even 2 out of 3 times, then it should be discarded as NO GOOD!!

That is murky water there. I somewhat agree with that. IMO, to tell someone that is short sighted. What if the people don't fully understand the technique and only think they know the technique?

Just because Mt. Fuji is hidden behind the tree and you cannot see it, does not mean that it doesn't exist.

As he puts the blade to my throat I would do all that I could to wedge my hand between my throat and the blade at all cost to prevent a fatal slash accross the throat.. WHY? In a position where its my life or his, a cut accross my hand be it front or back is a less than lethal slash that I can live with. Id rather it be my hand than my throat. Then I'd perform a simular technique.

I would just lock his elbow in place by lifting my arm along with immediate action to taking the attacker's balance. If I control the attacker, I don't need to worry about the blade. No need to get all messy with cut fingers and all (if it all possible).

 

[kailat]

Hi Big after I wrote this post last night, I tested this specific technique out.

here is what I came up with. First off I tried the way the video portrayed. And it is a "fun" technique kinda gets you smilin cause in a perfect world it is one of those "textbook pretty" techniques that if it would work it would be sweet!!

I don't want to sound like IM putting Aiki and his crew down for even putting that video up. Because bro It takes alot of courage to put that out there and by all means were all here to criticize thats what were here for in the forums lol.. We all know NOONE is perfect and neither is any one technique .. So im just picking apart the clip as I seen fit. Not from a "jackass" point of view. I just like to help better a something that may be overlooked.

As I toyed with the technique, I found a few pretty neat ways to disable the attacker in this situation.

I tried my method and I took a minor cut accross my last 3 fingers at best, and landed the attacker in a vulnerable position.

Secondly I tried just as locking out the arm into a hip toss and that again worked out wonderfully. ( No cut)

Thirdly, immedietly on his attack I gave a quick pop to his groin which caused a reaction to allow me a quick roll out into an armbar and takedown.

I wish I had a way to record on video these applications. I'll look and see what I can come up with. Ithink my digital camera is able to do these clips.. I've just never tried it. Lord look out if it works.. HAHAHA I can post all kinds of goodies and get criticized myself... I'll play with it later tonite after I get off work and see what I can come up with.

thanks again

 

[Bigshadow]

Hi Big after I wrote this post last night, I tested this specific technique out.

No worries!

They are alot of fun to play with. I have worked them before too. Usually, with us, the attacker will push the victims hips forward as knife goes around the neck to take the victim's balance.

When I was the victim, I would immediately trap the elbow by lifting the arm and with the other hand, pin the knife hand to my chest, while dropping my hips to put them back under my shoulders. Using my shoulders to roll the forearm and pivot to the outside around the attacker's trapped elbow (using it as a fulcrum) until I am facing the attacker at which point I have him bent over backward with his arm twisted back. At this point I have plenty of options available and the attacker has very little and the knife is still in his hand (unless he dropped it).

Of course there are probably many things to do, just depends on where you act on the time-line and how the attack is shaped at that moment.

 

[Brian R. VanCise]

Oh I wish I could view this!

 

[Bigshadow]

Oh I wish I could view this!

What happens when you try to view it?

 

[Doc_Jude]

I would just lock his elbow in place by lifting my arm along with immediate action to taking the attacker's balance. If I control the attacker, I don't need to worry about the blade. No need to get all messy with cut fingers and all (if it all possible).

Ummm, why not do all this AND check the weapon hand? Grasp the knife hand at the base of the the thumb and clinch it to the body, anchoring it to allow for the rest of the technique to have time to work. Don't grab the wrist, because unless you've got ridiculous grip strength, & I'm talking about at least 300lbs of grip strength, you will not be able to arrest the underlying muscles and he'll still have articulation of that joint & he can turn that point into you, and a few millimeters later you're headed down to the road to hypovolemic shock/unconsciousness/brain death.

**Edit** Oh, I see you answered that. Never mind ^_^

 

[Bigshadow]

Ummm, why not do all this AND check the weapon hand? Grasp the knife hand at the base of the the thumb and clinch it to the body, anchoring it to allow for the rest of the technique to have time to work.

Absolutely

However, you wouldn't HAVE to do that, it can be gotten out of without the check. I have a hunch one can get out of it without using their hands at all if they are really good.