Knee damage in Taiji-latest info?

[Shadow Hunter]

:asian:

I was wondering what the latest info on knee damage and taiji was and where can I get more info on the subject.

Any links or sources would be appreciated.

 

[Taiji fan]

thats an interesting question....if you practice with the correct body line up there should be no knee damage in taijiquan unless you are agravating an exsisting injury...however, I did see an article a while back (sorry I can't remember the source) and it seemed that there were a fair number of people, particualrly in the USA who were having knee problems, it did transpire that they were all practising the Cheng Man Ching style of taijiquan which over emphaises lack of body structure. Incidently I was doing a bit of push hands training with a guy who kept telling me to bend my back knee in bow step and my knee ached like hell being unsupported by the rest of the leg.

 

[Shadow Hunter]

Hmmm...
I had not heard that all of the people suffereing knee damage were from the Cheng Man Ching style. In fact, I recall reading that people all over the US were suffering from bad knees. Was it perhaps that the study you read concentrated on just those stylists? I do not want to sound rude, but on a matter of such importance I wish to get the most direct infomation I can get.

 

[Taiji fan]

Was it perhaps that the study you read concentrated on just those stylists?

possibly...it was a while ago that I saw the piece and I don't really remember the details...

found this on a google search

Knee Alignment
The health benefits of Taijiquan are known by most people who practise the art. However, within the masses of people who practise Taijiquan, there are varying degrees of knee injuries which occur. There was a study conducted in China which revealed that there are as many as 30% who practise Taijiquan with varying degrees of knee joint injury due to the practise of Taijiquan. The reason for these injuries is that the postures are not correctly performed. It has been shown through observations that there are numerous examples of beginners who perform Taijiquan postures incorrectly. Moreover, there are many teachers who are teaching incorrect posture methods and body mechanics.

There was a student who came to one of the my classes who had been practicing the simplified form of Taijiquan for approximately one year. Upon requesting a demonstration of the movements, I noted the improper knee alignment of the student's bow stance. The alignment was corrected immediately to prevent injury. During the next practice session, the student admitted that he had been having knee pains. However, after the alignment problem was corrected, he noted that the pain in his knees totally disappeared.

The practise of Taijiquan requires that the muscles in the entire body become relaxed and the joints open and become loose. However, this type of looseness and relaxation must follow the requirements of Taijiquan practise whereby the normal position and proper function of the joints are maintained. While the muscles relax, one must maintain an upright centered body as well as a hollowed chest, straight back, sunk elbows, relaxed shoulders, relaxed waist, and other requirements. If these requirements are not followed and put into place, there will be injury to the joints of the body.

During the practise of Taijiquan most of the weight of the entire body is put on the lower extremities. Consequently, there are very few who ever mention of injury to the joints of the upper extremities. There are, however, many who complain of knee pain. Taijiquan emphasises the changes of yin and yang and the avoidance of double weightedness. Thus, there are many movements which require only one leg to support the weight of the entire body. A typical example of this would be an empty stance in which the weight and centre of the body is positioned onto one foot with the knee bent. The other foot is completely empty of weight. The bend in the knee will produce a transverse force on the knee joint.

The lower the postures are conducted during Taiji, the greater the pressure/stress the knee joints will receive. This will inevitably cause greater cellulose irregularity and work to support the added weight to that particular leg. It is often said that Taijiquan is for the promotion and cultivation of health therefore postures should be performed higher to prevent strain and injury. Rather than placing all weight onto one leg in an empty stance, it is better to shift approximately 30% of the body weight onto the empty leg to minimise over stressing the body and legs. This will still satisfy the requirement of avoiding double weightedness.

Another problem in the prevention of knee injury is the positioning of the feet. Each style of Taijiquan has different requirements in terms of foot position. For example, the bow stance in the Yang style requires that the front foot point to the front and the rear foot be turned out 45 degrees. The bow stance in the Wu Jian Quan style requires that both feet point to the front in a bow stance. Before discussing further, we should discuss the functions of the knee joint.

The knee joint is not a highly mobile joint. The main function of the knee joint is to direct the upper and lower leg to bend towards the rear. The sideways movement of the joint is relatively limited. If the normal sideways movement of the knee joint is surpassed, there will be injury to the joint. Moreover, this type of injury is more serious than when pressure is applied down onto the knee joint. Consequently, the empty stance in Yang style requires that the groin be rounded to allow the upper leg, lower leg, and foot to be in a straight line. This will control the agility of the body to turn left if the left foot is placed in front to form a left empty stance.

The Wu style also follows along in these lines by maintaining the upper and lower leg and the foot in one line. In summation, no matter which style of Taijiquan is practiced, one should never allow the knee joint to turn out or turn in from the alignment of the foot. Otherwise, there will be serious injury to the knee joint.

here is the source of the article

Knee alignment article

 

[liangzhicheng]

Good post, Taiji fan. What I've observed and been taught is that Tai Chi restructures the body. People come into class from various backgrounds, some with ok posture, and some with structural problems. As you mentioned, in Wu style, the feet should point forward. However, this is difficult to accomplish in the beginning as the hips are too tight. I think beginners should try for proper structure, but not force it. If they keep working on it, then the body will gradually be able to reach the desired state. What does this mean? A deep stance should not be used unless the student is ready for it. It might seem good for the ego, but an injury is just not worth it. However, sitting up higher does not mean one can slack off and avoid knee injury. Also remember that the body is linked, problems with the knee could be symptoms of problems elsewhere in the body. Keep the principles of body alignment in mind, work at maintaining them, and one should be free of/alleviate knee problems.