Kim Jong Il's Funeral ... are the people REALLY crying for him?

[MA-Caver]

I understand that folks would mourn the loss of a leader (if they were "beloved") and would turn out by the thousands to their funeral. Yet I see the images of the populace of this *ahem* communist country and wonder if really they're sorry to see the man go? Are they crocodile tears?

PYONGYANG, North Korea (AP) — North Korea's next leader escorted his father's hearse in an elaborate state funeral on a bitter, snowy day Wednesday, bowing and saluting in front of tens of thousands of citizens who wailed and stamped their feet in grief for Kim Jong Il.
http://news.yahoo.com/nkoreans-salute-cry-leader-kim-jong-il-114848698.html

Makes you wonder if the people are crying because if they don't show their grief then they aren't a true supporter of the man and his ideologies. Likewise it would reflect upon his successor/son if nobody is crying, mourning for his predecessor/father. Hmm, or have the North Koreans been brain-washed?

Whether or not there'll be changes in the policy of this country or not isn't the question here. But are the people truly supportive or having to pretend to be supportive so they won't be taken out back and shot?

What do you think?

 

[granfire]

I watched the procession with great interest.

As with the article from the Boston Globe (?) with interesting pictures of the 'daily life' of North Koreans, I fond the images highly interesting.

While his subjects were literally starving, the man managed to acquire ailments associated with over indulgence....

I found the mourners to be extremely well dressed. And I mean EXTREMELY well dressed. I don't think the crowds gathered to send off Princess Diana looked that good by a long shot!

The crowds were not all that deep along the road. and not a lot of people were really crying it seemed to me, just isolated pockets of mostly women...reminded me of hired wailing women, I have been told existed throughout history to mourn dead people during the funeral (off to research that now)


But the fact that they strapped the coffin to the top of the limousine like a car roof storage container had me almost in stitches!

I think it is a well staged affair. I wonder if the mourners were bussed from the back to the front of the route to make it look like a lot of people were there, or if it was just another military assignment.



But in all seriousness, I am amazed time and time again how oppressive regimes retain power. I don't believe for one second that there is one all powerful person. There are always a lot of hanger-ons who gain majorly from keeping the structure alive (I keep thinking of the Kevin Klein Movie 'Dave')

I suppose there is an element of brainwashing, because how can you be in the military while your family is at home, starving and not feel resentment?

maybe the people were really crying...
after all, an evil you know is better than one you don't.

 

[MA-Caver]

I watched the procession with great interest.

As with the article from the Boston Globe (?) with interesting pictures of the 'daily life' of North Koreans, I fond the images highly interesting.

While his subjects were literally starving, the man managed to acquire ailments associated with over indulgence....

I found the mourners to be extremely well dressed. And I mean EXTREMELY well dressed. I don't think the crowds gathered to send off Princess Diana looked that good by a long shot!

The crowds were not all that deep along the road. and not a lot of people were really crying it seemed to me, just isolated pockets of mostly women...reminded me of hired wailing women, I have been told existed throughout history to mourn dead people during the funeral (off to research that now)


But the fact that they strapped the coffin to the top of the limousine like a car roof storage container had me almost in stitches!


I think it is a well staged affair. I wonder if the mourners were bussed from the back to the front of the route to make it look like a lot of people were there, or if it was just another military assignment.



But in all seriousness, I am amazed time and time again how oppressive regimes retain power. I don't believe for one second that there is one all powerful person. There are always a lot of hanger-ons who gain majorly from keeping the structure alive (I keep thinking of the Kevin Klein Movie 'Dave')

I suppose there is an element of brainwashing, because how can you be in the military while your family is at home, starving and not feel resentment?

maybe the people were really crying...
after all, an evil you know is better than one you don't.

Well his son is the evil that they don't know and maybe that's why they're crying. But yeah, hired mourners was something I was thinking about. Only it wasn't money they were being paid but their lives. The fact that they're willing to let thousands starve says they have no compunction against shooting dissidents and they could very easily label a non-mourner as a dissident. Sad state of affairs indeed.
As for the ability to maintain power, it is as you said, the men behind the curtain (pardon the pun) and loyalists. Look at Kaddfay <sic -- who cares?> even while it was going very badly for him prior to his capture/execution he still had help and supporters. The North Koreans also probably have the weighty sword of China to worry about should they decide to have an uprising. I've no doubt that big brother would come in an instant should the people decide they've had enough and want to be a democracy, also sure that the people are very aware of it. It'd be suicide, because no other country would be foolish enough to openly help and risk relations with China for doing so.

Dang, when is it going to be Fidel Castro's turn?

 

[Touch Of Death]

You guys are kidding right? Perhaps you aren't familiar with what North Koreans are taught in school.
Sean

 

[seasoned]

You guys are kidding right? Perhaps you aren't familiar with what North Koreans are taught in school.
Sean

I agree with this for sure. Brainwashing at a young age, over many years.
Hell, we have an element of this elsewhere. It's a great tool for the long term.......................(sarcasm alert)

 

[Grenadier]

Keep in mind, my statements are because I grew up in a Korean family...

The North Korean populace is full of brainwashed drones, who were essentially taught to worship Kim Il Sung from the time that they were born. Kim Il Sung has a god-like stature over there in that backwards hellhole of a country. I suspect that any genuine tears in that crowd of mourners come from this sector of the populace.

Those who aren't brainwashed know better than to speak out against a government that will happily slaughter them if they voice any opposition. They have no qualms about killing anyone who doesn't at least pay outward homage / kowtowing to their ideals.

 

[MA-Caver]

Photos of the funeral... http://www.theatlantic.com/infocus/2011/12/north-korea-mourns-kim-jong-il/100215/

 

[Omar B]

Yeah they cried. Their stand in for god/state/law/daily bread just died. They have no concept of a life not dependent upon another, the state, the leader. An entire society of second handers who have lost that hand that feeds.

 

[MA-Caver]

Yeah they cried. Their stand in for god/state/law/daily bread just died. They have no concept of a life not dependent upon another, the state, the leader. An entire society of second handers who have lost that hand that feeds.

Not really, it's been replaced by yet another iron fist in a velvet glove.

 

[Tez3]

Keep in mind, my statements are because I grew up in a Korean family...

The North Korean populace is full of brainwashed drones, who were essentially taught to worship Kim Il Sung from the time that they were born. Kim Il Sung has a god-like stature over there in that backwards hellhole of a country. I suspect that any genuine tears in that crowd of mourners come from this sector of the populace.

Those who aren't brainwashed know better than to speak out against a government that will happily slaughter them if they voice any opposition. They have no qualms about killing anyone who doesn't at least pay outward homage / kowtowing to their ideals.

How do Koreans mourn when someone they care for dies, if he'd been a genuinely loved leader, I ask because it was pointed out in a newspaper that many people here were mocking the, to us very extravagent weeping, it may be the normal thing that is done when a leader or some such dies. It said to bear in mind that many were having to pretend to feel that way as well as those brain washed, it was, however, how a leader could be mourned there anyway. Different people have different ways of behaving at funerals, some cultures are very nosiy at funerals others very quiet.

 

[Flea]

You guys are kidding right? Perhaps you aren't familiar with what North Koreans are taught in school.
Sean

What are North Koreans taught in school?

 

[Grenadier]

How do Koreans mourn when someone they care for dies, if he'd been a genuinely loved leader, I ask because it was pointed out in a newspaper that many people here were mocking the, to us very extravagent weeping, it may be the normal thing that is done when a leader or some such dies. It said to bear in mind that many were having to pretend to feel that way as well as those brain washed, it was, however, how a leader could be mourned there anyway. Different people have different ways of behaving at funerals, some cultures are very nosiy at funerals others very quiet.

A fair question indeed. Again, I'll try to answer this based on my understanding of how Koreans behave.

For South Koreans, they might have a quiet, solemn moment. Maybe a parade, but you're not going to see the crowds screaming and wailing in (mostly fake or brainwashed) sadness. Even during a highly emotional time, it's not going to be nearly that blatant. At the very worst, you'd probably see a similar level amongst the Korean populace that everyone saw in the American populace when F.D. Roosevelt died during WW II.

For North Koreans, when it comes to family members, it's mostly the same, from what I've been told. Quiet rememberance, although there will certainly be some folks who will have genuinely sorrowful weeping. Nevertheless, you're not going to see a bunch of people prostrating themselves towards a dead family member or friend. Maybe a quick bow, but not a series of 100+ bows and screaming in sorrow.

 

[Grenadier]

What are North Koreans taught in school?

They are taught to worship Kim Il Sung, and to respect his progeny as descendants of Heaven. No joke.

You are basically taught that Kim Il Sung is a Supreme Being, and that he can do no wrong. Anything that comes from Kim Il Sung (or his progeny) is to be taken as divine word, and must be obeyed without question. Those who conspire against him are traitors to the faith, and must be reported. Those who are reported will be dealt with, most severely.

Think of how the brainwashed animals in George Orwell's work "Animal Farm" behaved, when it came to obeying "Comrade Napoleon."

 

[Tez3]

Grenadier, thanks for that, it's actually interesting to learn what various customs are for grieving. I had imagined that in Asian countries such as Japan, Korea, China etc you would be expected to be dignified. I know that in other places people are expected to be loud and what we'd think to be over the top in showing their grief, with loud crying, wailing and even collapsing.

 

[granfire]

They are taught to worship Kim Il Sung, and to respect his progeny as descendants of Heaven. No joke.

You are basically taught that Kim Il Sung is a Supreme Being, and that he can do no wrong. Anything that comes from Kim Il Sung (or his progeny) is to be taken as divine word, and must be obeyed without question. Those who conspire against him are traitors to the faith, and must be reported. Those who are reported will be dealt with, most severely.

Think of how the brainwashed animals in George Orwell's work "Animal Farm" behaved, when it came to obeying "Comrade Napoleon."

George Orwell certainly called it. in '1984' as well...

 

[MJS]

http://news.yahoo.com/north-korea-reportedly-punishing-insincere-mourners.html

Either they were or they were just damn good actors.

 

[puunui]

Grenadier, thanks for that, it's actually interesting to learn what various customs are for grieving. I had imagined that in Asian countries such as Japan, Korea, China etc you would be expected to be dignified. I know that in other places people are expected to be loud and what we'd think to be over the top in showing their grief, with loud crying, wailing and even collapsing.

I don't know how it is when the leader of a country passes away, but I've been to my share of funerals for Korean born people, and it was like any other funeral, with the exception that there is always at least one family member that cries very loudly, makes a scene, and has to be escorted from the funeral. My understanding is that unless one or more people grieve in such a manner, then you the deceased won't move on. Usually it is a relative, but I think it can be someone else too, a close friend, or someone like that. This is different from say, a funeral for a Japanese or Filipino person. I've been to those, but they don't have that same custom of having at least one person really cry and scream. One of my best friends from elementary school was filipino, but no one made a scene at his funeral. I don't know what happens at a funeral for a chinese person.