John Cleese, the london his belief's created

[billc]

In this article at Pajamasmedia.com, it looks at former Monty Python star and comedic actor and pitchman, John Cleese, and the way he is complaining about London and how it doesn't feel like london anymore. His belief systems probably went a long way to creating that feeling.

http://pajamasmedia.com/eddriscoll/...f-identity-at-the-dawn-of-the-21st-century-2/

From the article:

Cleese also spoke about the shift in British attitudes away from a “middle-class culture” and the emergence of a “yob culture”.
He said: “There were disadvantages to the old culture, it was a bit stuffy and it was more sexist and more racist. But it was an educated and middle-class culture. Now it’s a yob culture. The values are so strange.”
He added that he preferred living in Bath to London because the capital no longer felt “English”.
“London is no longer an English city which is why I love Bath,” he said. “That’s how they sold it for the Olympics, not as the capital of England but as the cosmopolitan city. I love being down in Bath because it feels like the England that I grew up in.”
​

It is certainly true that London explicitly sold the Olympics on the fact that the city, while less pleasant than Paris in every conceivable way, was multicultural. And while there are many positive things about cosmopolitan London – a dark-skinned Frenchman once told me that London was paradise because nowhere in France could he go about his business without fearing his skin colour might cause some problem – it is certainly not English in the way that Bath still is.
And Bath is English in a particularly liberal way, in the same way, I suppose, that Monty Python was. In fact, one of the strange things about immigration and enforced diversity is that it destroys the very things that liberals love about this country – its egalitarianism, its secularism (including the ability to laugh about religion), an unarmed police, a public willingness to pool resources to pay for publicly owned libraries, arts services, education and health care. Personally, being a latte-sipping European girly-man, I quite like those things, and yet they are slipping away (could Life of Brian even be made today? I’m not too sure).

 

[Tez3]

As he hasn't lived here for years who cares what he thinks, he doesn't pay taxes here so what he has to say about London etc is irrelevant. Bath is 'upper class' and posh hardly representative.

 

[yorkshirelad]

As he hasn't lived here for years who cares what he thinks, he doesn't pay taxes here so what he has to say about London etc is irrelevant. Bath is 'upper class' and posh hardly representative.

QFT! He's better off away from Blighty. The whole place is a mess!

 

[Tez3]

QFT! He's better off away from Blighty. The whole place is a mess!

A sweeping and bitter generalisation. To denigrate a whole country full of good people is pointless and just because your life here wasn't to your satisfaction doesn't mean the rest of us are unhappy with life here besides whatever is wrong here we aren't cowardly enough to wish to leave it to other people to sort out. if you have been here yesterday you would have realised that, to hear a nation belting out 'Jerusalem' along with the congregation in Westminster Abbey was humbling. To watch the Asians in Southall dancing in brilliant costunes in the street,, the Scots in Edinburgh, the Welsh, and the Irish in Northern Ireland, street parties everywhere, a million people on the Mall, Hyde Park and outside Buck House was wonderful. No, we aren't perfect, there's things that need fixing but, sir, it's not for you to criticise us anymore, you turned your back on us. We are of no concern to you and we don't denigrate your country so as my mother used to say 'if you can't say anything nice..............

 

[yorkshirelad]

you turned your back on us. We are of no concern to you and we don't denigrate your country

I take it that you will not be partaking in any discussions/debates that involve the US then? Good!

[/quote]so as my mother used to say 'if you can't say anything nice..............[/quote]

Seems like a very wise lady. You should've learned from her, or at least practise what you preach!

 

[jks9199]

Whoa, there, folks! Let's try to keep things friendly, huh?

 

[yorkshirelad]

to hear a nation belting out 'Jerusalem' along with the congregation in Westminster Abbey was humbling. quote]

Jerusalem is quite simply gobbledigook!Just read the lyrics:

And did those feet in ancient time
Walk upon England's mountain green?
And was the holy Lamb of God
On England's pleasant pastures seen?
And did the countenance divine
Shine forth upon our clouded hills?
And was Jerusalem builded here
Among those dark satanic mills?

Bring me my bow of burning gold!
Bring me my arrows of desire!
Bring me my spear! O clouds, unfold!
Bring me my chariot of fire!
I will not cease from mental fight,
Nor shall my sword sleep in my hand,
Till we have built Jerusalem
In England's green and pleasant land.

I think we can say that Jerusalem has never and will never be built in or on England. I think we can also categorically say that Jesus has never and will never step foot on the UK. The song is nonsense, and listening millions of people singing nonsense in unison is quite frankly, disturbingly funny! They might well have been singing "I've got a lovely bunch of coconuts", at least that song has meaning!

I actually took a chance when leaving England Irene. There was nothing cowardly about it. I could've done what many of the working class in England do; claim dole, spent every evening drinking in the pub, got a council house, and pretty much lived safely. Instead I started by moving to Dublin. Many in England told me that I'd get my head kicked in in Dublin, or worse because they hate the English. I was told I was crazy. When I moved there however, I found the most loving and caring people I had ever had the pleasure to come across. I had to sleep rough for a few nights in a land that I knew little about, but it worked out for the best.
When I came stateside, again I knew noone. I just hopped on a plane. Without a visa or any real knowledge of anything, I found a job, apartment, somewhere to train and eventually a wife who's also my best mate....God bless America!

You've mentioned me being cowardly for leaving Blighty a few times, so I just thought I'd clear a few things up for you love. I do miss a few things about England though. Sometimes I'd kill for a mug of Tetley and a Mr. Kipling Cherry Bakewell... but what the hell. I'll stick with a life on the beach here any day!

 

[Sukerkin]

Gobbledigook?!

Poetic, aye. Nonsense, no.

Now you won't get me defending religious attitudes clothed in music but what Jerusalem is about is aspiring to a spiritual state of being in the soul whilst working tirelessly to bring about an improvement of the common lot in the physical world.

And I didn't respond to the original OP because ... well, you can guess that it involves the poster taking 2 + 2 and getting a number that does not equal 4. I didn't want to encourage any more posts along the same lines (we have enough psedu-political drivel here as it is) so I left it well alone ... but it floated back up to the surface regardless :lol:.

 

[yorkshirelad]

The hymn is absolute nonsense!

 

[Sukerkin]

The cake is a lie!

 

[Carol]

The cake is a lie!

Did someone leave the cake out in the rain again?

 

[granfire]

Did someone leave the cake out in the rain again?

I think your fox ate it...

 

[Tez3]

I don't denigrate the United States, I've never said it was rubbish or a bad place, in fact despite what you think I rarely comment at all about the States.

It doesn't matter a fig what you think about Jerusalem, it matters to those who also sang 'I vow to thee my country' Sneer all you like, water off a duck's back I assure you as far as I'm concerned, you've just confirmed all my orignial thoughts about coming back here but I'd be interested in what you think gives you the right to sneer, laugh and generally dispise the British. It is cowardly to leave a country saying it's pants and then criticise it from afar, stay and fight for what you believe in or leave and start a new life afresh leaving the old one behind, don't mix them both up.

When in many countries at this moment in time, tens of thousands are standing outside their 'rulers' palaces demanding they stand down, we have tens of thousands standing outside Buckingham Palace waiting for newly weds to appear on a balcony so they can say 'ah' when they kiss.
You can lump the whole of the UK in together but you have no idea what life is like in Mawnan Smith in Cornwall, Hawes in North Yorks, Brigg in Lincs, Weathersfield in Essex or anywhere else these days, you'd have everyone think it's all doom gloom and ee by gum.

I was there yesterday, I talked to a great many people in the course of what I was doing, you are kicking these people in the teeth with your sneering, they wouldn't live anywhere else but here. And believe me it's not the worse place in the world to live.

It may be 'fashionable' these days to be cynical, world weary and generally hard nosed, it's not my style, I prefer to keep my humanity. And yes it was humbling to talk to the British public yesterday, they love their country despite or maybe even because of it's faults. The British lion may be getting on a bit, it may be asleep but if you wake it, it still has teeth.

If anyone was watching the Royal Wedding yesterday, if they noticed the Household Cavalry, the chaps in the dark blue tunics riding escort? One of those troopers is the sniper with the longest distance kill. the officer who took Harry's hat in the abbey lost his leg and comrades in Afghan, the uniform William was wearing was Irish Guards currently serving in Afghan, the Guard at Buck Hourse were Welsh Guards, who took heavy losses including their CO in Afghan, other Guards include the Scots Guards who lost one of theirs, Staff Sgt. Cameron last week a year after he was gravely wounded in Afghan. All of the soldiers and airmen lining the route have served in Afghan and while many including many service people believe we shouldn't be in Afghan there is tremendous support for our troops, we are proud of them. We are proud that despite being bombed by a great many people including the renegade IRA who have just declared they are starting another bombing campaign against us ( they blew up a police officer the other week) no one will get us down. On the whole you know, things aren't that bad here, sure things could be better on the whole, all things taken into considration, we aren't a mess at all, we are what we've always been, just us.
Lastly, scoff at 'Jerusalem' all you like but it was chosen by Andrew Howarth's parents for his funeral in September, he was 20 and died serving his country in Afghan , remember that when you sneer. people still considr this a country worth dying for, and definitely worth living for.

 

[Touch Of Death]

to hear a nation belting out 'Jerusalem' along with the congregation in Westminster Abbey was humbling. quote]

Jerusalem is quite simply gobbledigook!Just read the lyrics:

And did those feet in ancient time
Walk upon England's mountain green?
And was the holy Lamb of God
On England's pleasant pastures seen?
And did the countenance divine
Shine forth upon our clouded hills?
And was Jerusalem builded here
Among those dark satanic mills?

Bring me my bow of burning gold!
Bring me my arrows of desire!
Bring me my spear! O clouds, unfold!
Bring me my chariot of fire!
I will not cease from mental fight,
Nor shall my sword sleep in my hand,
Till we have built Jerusalem
In England's green and pleasant land.

I think we can say that Jerusalem has never and will never be built in or on England. I think we can also categorically say that Jesus has never and will never step foot on the UK. The song is nonsense, and listening millions of people singing nonsense in unison is quite frankly, disturbingly funny! They might well have been singing "I've got a lovely bunch of coconuts", at least that song has meaning!

I actually took a chance when leaving England Irene. There was nothing cowardly about it. I could've done what many of the working class in England do; claim dole, spent every evening drinking in the pub, got a council house, and pretty much lived safely. Instead I started by moving to Dublin. Many in England told me that I'd get my head kicked in in Dublin, or worse because they hate the English. I was told I was crazy. When I moved there however, I found the most loving and caring people I had ever had the pleasure to come across. I had to sleep rough for a few nights in a land that I knew little about, but it worked out for the best.
When I came stateside, again I knew noone. I just hopped on a plane. Without a visa or any real knowledge of anything, I found a job, apartment, somewhere to train and eventually a wife who's also my best mate....God bless America!

You've mentioned me being cowardly for leaving Blighty a few times, so I just thought I'd clear a few things up for you love. I do miss a few things about England though. Sometimes I'd kill for a mug of Tetley and a Mr. Kipling Cherry Bakewell... but what the hell. I'll stick with a life on the beach here any day!

You don't know for certain that Jesus didn't travel to England. I have read he very well may have... given he existed. LOL
Sean

 

[Tez3]

You don't know for certain that Jesus didn't travel to England. I have read he very well may have... given he existed. LOL
Sean

The south west of England was trading with the Middle East in the days of the Phoenicians,the ancient Greeks and Romans well before the time that Jesus was believed to have lived. Publius Crassus mentions trading with the tin islands, 'Cassiderides' or Cornwall in the 1st Century BCE. I believe Joseph of Arimathea was supposed to have settled in the West Country.

As Sukerkin says, it's the sentiment that counts.

 

[Sukerkin]

It may be 'fashionable' these days to be cynical, world weary and generally hard nosed, it's not my style, I prefer to keep my humanity. And yes it was humbling to talk to the British public yesterday, they love their country despite or maybe even because of it's faults. The British lion may be getting on a bit, it may be asleep but if you wake it, it still has teeth.

Aye, quite so. The place is falling apart, the chavs and the drugies are a rising tide and the Empire is a fading memory to our youth. But is still the place in the world I'd most rather be ... I just wish the economy was a little better and we had a few fewer people crowding the isle.

As an aside, I know it's not my place really to say, other than the 'guiding hand' bit of being a Mentor, but don't fight guys. Disagree, aye, even argue strongly with your emotions out for all to see. But, please, don't tear strips off each other.

 

[Tez3]

Aye, quite so. The place is falling apart, the chavs and the drugies are a rising tide and the Empire is a fading memory to our youth. But is still the place in the world I'd most rather be ... I just wish the economy was a little better and we had a few fewer people crowding the isle.

As an aside, I know it's not my place really to say, other than the 'guiding hand' bit of being a Mentor, but don't fight guys. Disagree, aye, even argue strongly with your emotions out for all to see. But, please, don't tear strips off each other.

It's alright, I'm not stopping, just wanted to say hi to a couple of friends. I dislike the way MT has become so right wing, and that there are more and more of us who aren't posting because of the aggresive way of posting that has been adopted by some. Too many of the posters I admire aren't posting anymore.
I fail to see the point of posting up what people think are other countries 'failing's' it's hardly neighbourly nor friendly, it's a turn for the worse as I see it, a sort of one upmanship.

Chavs btw aren't everywhere (didn't see one in Cornwall and I was all over the place, don't have them here either, it's an Essex thing) and we have far less drug addicts than in Victorian times! there are thousands on waiting list to join Guiding and Scouting, as well as Air, Army and Sea Cadets, the Boys and Girls Brigade are thriving, junior choirs, gymnsatics, cheerleading, martial arts and dance groups are increasing, children are playing more sport than ever, More youngsters are fundraising than ever before, more communities are fighting for their neighbourhoods. Despite what people think crime figures aren't nearly as high as the media would have you think. Look at the UK as a stranger would and it's not nearly as bad as you think it is. The NHS isn't perfect but still the envy of many countries, think what life would be like without it?

 

[Bob Hubbard]

I dislike the way MT has become so right wing, and that there are more and more of us who aren't posting because of the aggresive way of posting that has been adopted by some. Too many of the posters I admire aren't posting anymore.

Not much I can do. Can't put a gun to peoples heads and say "post something different". Mentors are supposed to be the leaders, the influence, and all that stuff. Can't make them post either. Something about how if someone posts something in the Study that they disagree with, it's illegal, immoral, impossible or a violation of their oaths as crusty old farts to post anything, anywhere else n all that. Way I look at it, when the site grinds to a stop, I run out of money, or it becomes a clone of sites I despise, I'll either sell it, or just nuke the database and walk away.

As to Cleese, he hasn't been relevant for years.

 

[billc]

I have to ask, are those to the left so easily put off. I mean, to complain about posts you don't have to read, and say that some won't post here because it is so right wing. Wow, it is not really an impressive stance I have to say. I sit here and take loads of, shall we say horse manure, about what I post, and I am still posting. I guess if you can't stand that others disagree with you, so much that you can't post here, well, what does that say in general about our friends on the left. They seek to shut down Fox news, they sling the race card if someone chooses to oppose their candidate, they resort to union thuggery rather than speech. Hmmmm, not impressive even one little bit.

 

[Sukerkin]

I would be interested in knowing what makes you think how endless political postings, on a Martial Arts site, about how righteous the Right is and how heinous the Left is, helps that site?

If politics is what you're interested in, why not vent your views on a politically orientated site? To do it here is the web equivalent of the kid in the seat behind you playing the "I've got a song that'll get on your nerves" game.

Fronting up the "just ignore me then" defence doesn't really work; as with the annoying kid analogy, it's easier said than done.

In the end, if you know that all you are doing is disrupting the waters, it is simple bad manners. To then try and place the blame on those you have agitated is reprehensible.