japanese jujitsu/brazilian jujitsu
- Thread starter Manny
- Start date
Xue Sheng
All weight is underside
Japanese Jujitsu
Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu
All I can speak of from experience is Japanese jujitsu but things may have changed in over 30 years. But back when I trained it we trained throws, takedowns, joint locking, kicking and punching
Form what little I know about BJJ it appears to be more focused on ground fighting than JJ was.
juĀ·jutĀ·su or jiuĀ·jitĀ·su or jiuĀ·jutĀ·su (jū-jĭt'sū
n.
An art of weaponless self-defense developed in Japan that uses throws, holds, and blows and derives added power from the attacker's own weight and strength.
Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu
All I can speak of from experience is Japanese jujitsu but things may have changed in over 30 years. But back when I trained it we trained throws, takedowns, joint locking, kicking and punching
Form what little I know about BJJ it appears to be more focused on ground fighting than JJ was.
Steve
Mostly Harmless
Japanese jujutsu is actually a pretty broad category of styles. From what I understand, the emphasis on striking and grappling, stand up and ground fighting varies dramatically from group to group. Hopefully someone with some expertise in Japanese Jujutsu can comment. I'll try to stick to BJJ, which is what I'm familiar with.
Speaking about BJJ, while rooted in Japanese jujutsu, the style is significantly different. The culture of the style is much more informal, with less emphasis on ritual and honorifics. From the very beginning, the influence of CACC Wrestling and other Western grappling techniques can be seen.
Modern BJJ includes throws common to Judo, as well as takedowns that would be illegal in Judo competition, but are common to western wrestling. You're as likely to see a hip toss as a double leg takedown.
Technically, there is an emphasis on groundfighting in BJJ. So, the groundfighting that you see tends to be more highly evolved than what you'll find in other arts.
Speaking about BJJ, while rooted in Japanese jujutsu, the style is significantly different. The culture of the style is much more informal, with less emphasis on ritual and honorifics. From the very beginning, the influence of CACC Wrestling and other Western grappling techniques can be seen.
Modern BJJ includes throws common to Judo, as well as takedowns that would be illegal in Judo competition, but are common to western wrestling. You're as likely to see a hip toss as a double leg takedown.
Technically, there is an emphasis on groundfighting in BJJ. So, the groundfighting that you see tends to be more highly evolved than what you'll find in other arts.
OP
OP
Manny
Senior Master
Thank you, I know brazilian jujutsu ust be a good fighting method or fighting martial art, however I don like to focus on ground game only, I think japanese jujitsu could be the one to train for me. Any how brazilian jujitsu is something I don't have in my town, only one dojo who teaches judo and jujutsu.
Thanx a lot.
Manny
Thanx a lot.
Manny
Steve
Mostly Harmless
Most schools don't focus on the ground game only. I hope you didn't get that impression from what I said. There is an emphasis, but transitioning to and from the ground is also important. In other words, getting up when you need to and taking the other guy down.
OP
OP
Manny
Senior Master
I really apreciate your points of view mostly from one involved in BJJ. BJJ is something exotic here in my country, yes there are some Gracie's dojos but in the largest cities of my country like Mexico City and Monterrey and Guadalajara. In my town we haven't any BJJ dojo, so I have to choose amoung aikido, judo and japnese jujitsu.
As a skinny boy back in 70's I did a little judo mostly beacuse I was somekind fragile and I was the target of some bullies on my block, however I did not get any kup/gup or colored belt.
What I like the aikido is the fancy way to blend with the energy of the opoent and use againts it, but sometimes I feel judo or jujutsu has a more figthing aproach.
So maybe I will have to check again the judo dojo I went a few months back and check another judo dojo near my home.
Manny
Bruno@MT
Senior Master
Japanese jujutsu is a fairly broad system, including striking, grappling, locks, etc. There are many differences between styles.
Modern styles can be seen as a mix of aikido, karate and judo, with all 3 in equal proportion, including groundwork and application for self defense. There is also much physical development.
Traditional JJ does not put much emphasis on ground work. They were meant to be used in actual life or death combat, where you don't go to the ground if you can avoid it. If you don't, then you will be kicked to a pulp by the other guy's team.
Traditional JJ also is influenced by the fact that many techniques were meant to be usable while wearing a yoroi, which is Japanese battle armor. So there is no hopping back and forth for example, and this is one of the other reasons while going to the ground is considered really bad. It's hard to get up while wearing such armor. You're basically a turtle on his back. There is also more emphasis on proper dojo etiquette, reiho, traditional kata, etc..
Additionally, many traditional systems also contain weaponry, so many of the stances and principles are usable in armed and unarmed situations from the ground up.
Modern styles can be seen as a mix of aikido, karate and judo, with all 3 in equal proportion, including groundwork and application for self defense. There is also much physical development.
Traditional JJ does not put much emphasis on ground work. They were meant to be used in actual life or death combat, where you don't go to the ground if you can avoid it. If you don't, then you will be kicked to a pulp by the other guy's team.
Traditional JJ also is influenced by the fact that many techniques were meant to be usable while wearing a yoroi, which is Japanese battle armor. So there is no hopping back and forth for example, and this is one of the other reasons while going to the ground is considered really bad. It's hard to get up while wearing such armor. You're basically a turtle on his back. There is also more emphasis on proper dojo etiquette, reiho, traditional kata, etc..
Additionally, many traditional systems also contain weaponry, so many of the stances and principles are usable in armed and unarmed situations from the ground up.
OP
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Manny
Senior Master
I will check the jj sensei, as I wrote before there are some martial arts in my city that are so new in town so I don't have any data about the sensei and the brand of these dojos. The martial arts that are stablished and with with good background and records are Japanese Karate, Judo and Tae Kwon Do, Aikido is relatively not to old in my city but I know the senseis.
So basically a grapling martial art could be judo, and aikido can be a good martial art howvere the clases are in some ways more ki/harmony oriented I guess.
Manny
So basically a grapling martial art could be judo, and aikido can be a good martial art howvere the clases are in some ways more ki/harmony oriented I guess.
Manny
Tanaka
Purple Belt
I really wouldn't say it's rooted in Japanese Jujutsu. It's actually derived from Judo. So it's rooted in Judo and actually looks very much like Judo. The groundwork has slightly evolved to be more crafty than the newaza used by the Judoka. Although the techniques used by the BJJ practitioner basically are all form the Kodokan Judo curriculum. Same with the throws used by BJJ practitioners.
As you can see from these videos.
[yt]4u41omoNO4U[/yt]
Judo
[yt]pImvS0OuQdU[/yt]
Brazilian JiuJitsu
[yt]nIk8XckFH3c[/yt]
Another Brazilian Jiujitsu
I put two BJJ videos in case you don't like the music in the first one.
Steve
Mostly Harmless
Judo is rooted in Japanese Jujutsu.
I see your point, although I still think that the infusion of western wrestling distinguishes both the standing grappling and the groundfighting in BJJ from judo. While many of the techniques are shared, BJJ has absorbed wrestling, as well.
I see your point, although I still think that the infusion of western wrestling distinguishes both the standing grappling and the groundfighting in BJJ from judo. While many of the techniques are shared, BJJ has absorbed wrestling, as well.
Chris Parker
Grandmaster
Ahem, Manny?
http://martialtalk.com/forum/showthread.php?t=89688
Done.
Oh, and Judo IS Japanese Jujutsu, by the way. Just one particular form of it.
http://martialtalk.com/forum/showthread.php?t=89688
Done.
Oh, and Judo IS Japanese Jujutsu, by the way. Just one particular form of it.
OP
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Manny
Senior Master
So judo is another way of doing jujutsu, I think the diference is beetwen the words jutsu and do, if I recall jutsu means war or for war and do means way/path.
I am in a strugle, don't know what to do, aikido or judo. Aikido looks terrific avoiding and sending the bad guy to the floor and the use of the joint locks to send the bad guy to the floor also are terrifc, in the other hand the trowing techs and the ground techs of judo are awesome too.
Any sugestion?
Manny
Bruno@MT
Senior Master
To add to my last post: it is impossible to make a choice based only on the name of the art. The way they train and whether you get a good vibe from the sensei are critical factors. Aikido is an interesting art, yet there are many aikido dojo that I would not touch with a ten foot pole, because of the way they train.
In some aikido dojo (or jujutsu dojo for that matter) they go through the kata without any sort of intent, where a punch is the presentation of a hand on a silver platter, and where maai and zanshin are alien concepts.
And my sensei trained aikido at his university, which was taught by a Japanese 6th dan who was spending a couple of years in Belgium. That was a completely differen experience for him. So it is really impossible to make a decision without giving both a try, or at least checking out the dojo.
In some aikido dojo (or jujutsu dojo for that matter) they go through the kata without any sort of intent, where a punch is the presentation of a hand on a silver platter, and where maai and zanshin are alien concepts.
And my sensei trained aikido at his university, which was taught by a Japanese 6th dan who was spending a couple of years in Belgium. That was a completely differen experience for him. So it is really impossible to make a decision without giving both a try, or at least checking out the dojo.
Chris Parker
Grandmaster
Hi Manny,
Uh, no, not quite that simple (or correct, really). "Jutsu" refers to a "practical art", and has no reference to anything to do with war at all, that's the "Bu" of "Bujutsu". As said in the thread I linked where you asked pretty much the same question mid-late last year, jujutsu is a rather generic term, and can mean anything from a fairly grappling-exclusive set of mechanical methods, to striking-heavy systems, to ones including a range of weapons as well. Some old Koryu Jujutsu systems even used the term "Judo" to describe what they did.
Kodokan Judo is a more modern creation from the end of the 19th Century, and was based in a number of classical Jujutsu systems, really, it's just another form of Jujutsu (using the term as a generic one). So Judo is really just another school of Jujutsu, rather than "another way of doing Jujutsu". It's original name was Kano-ha Jujutsu. It is Jujutsu, as is Aikido in it's own way.
Really, when it comes to which to go to, check out all the available options to you, and chose the one that feels best to you. You'll find that the school and instructor will be a bigger influence on your decision than any little detail I or anyone else here could give you about the way the systems developed, the differences or similarities in technical make-up, or anything else. Eventually, it's your call, and you need to go and make up your own mind.
I wish you the best in this.
