its not the same

[skinters]

this is awkward to think about, let alone type it down in here,hope it dont come across the wrong way .

i have not been doing wingchun for long and im making quite good progress,to the point im already on a par if not better that some who have been at it a lot longer.im asked all the time how long i have been doing wingchun and most are suprised when i tell them im just a beginner.before i started taking classes,i was training a lot on my own not specifically wingchun but i suppose a lot of the movements i was doing would be called wingchun if they were seen by anyone practicing the art .

now along with all this before i took classes for months i studied wingchun as much as i could from books,dvd,internet and its giving me a head start if you like .been doing martial art since i was 9 im 37 now.

what all this is leading to is i feel awkward showing what ive got in front of those who i started out with .i feel like im taking the p**s when im getting through on people and still holding back .


its like im getting better all the time and passing others in skill,those who first showed me the stance and how to relax etc,and i dont know how to deal with it

sorry the post is longwinded.

jase

 

[brocklee]

I'm not sure what the problem is. If you learn quicker then others, then go with it.

If people say that you appear to have been training WC for a while, have fun with it. Tell em that you're really a spy from another school lol

 

[profesormental]

Greetings.

Wing Chun is about pruning your movements to the most effective and efficient possible. Like Taoism, it is about taking the intelligent "shortcut" to whatever you want. Wing Chun is an expression of Taoist and Chan Buddhist philosophy (mostly Taoist) so it would help to study some to understand it.

Since you've been training for years, it is fairly common to be able to "get" the skills faster. Not only that, when you consider that you have put extra time in studying, learning, thinking and even writing to forums...

... you have put much more time in than just the time at the training hall.

Thus skills progression should be faster. If it where not, then I would see that as a problem.

I had similar experiences, since when I do something, I get immersed, since it is the best way to learn something. You have shown great interest and shared your experiences while accepting feedback. That is commendable, and indicative of intention to get better and learn fast.

You are getting what you're working for, thus know that you are on the right path.

These concerns should be talked to with your Si Fu, so he can give you an extra beating so you can feel that you're still learning and have more training to do.

If your Si Hing's can't beat you up, then tell them to gang up on you. Training is about the challenge and getting better. No use in holding back. Maybe THEY are holding back because I see Chi Sao as an exchange of gifts...

you recieve as well as you give.

If your responsibility is to TEACH, then it is very different. Yet that is another topic.

Sincerely,

Juan M. Mercado

 

[arnisador]

This will even out pretty quickly, but for some humility and perspective, try cross-training with a boxer or BJJer or the like!

 

[graychuan]

greetings.

Wing chun is about pruning your movements to the most effective and efficient possible. Like taoism, it is about taking the intelligent "shortcut" to whatever you want. Wing chun is an expression of taoist and chan buddhist philosophy (mostly taoist) so it would help to study some to understand it.

Since you've been training for years, it is fairly common to be able to "get" the skills faster. Not only that, when you consider that you have put extra time in studying, learning, thinking and even writing to forums...

... You have put much more time in than just the time at the training hall.

Thus skills progression should be faster. If it where not, then i would see that as a problem.

I had similar experiences, since when i do something, i get immersed, since it is the best way to learn something. You have shown great interest and shared your experiences while accepting feedback. That is commendable, and indicative of intention to get better and learn fast.

You are getting what you're working for, thus know that you are on the right path.

These concerns should be talked to with your si fu, so he can give you an extra beating so you can feel that you're still learning and have more training to do.

If your si hing's can't beat you up, then tell them to gang up on you. Training is about the challenge and getting better. No use in holding back. Maybe they are holding back because i see chi sao as an exchange of gifts...

You recieve as well as you give.

If your responsibility is to teach, then it is very different. Yet that is another topic.

Sincerely,

juan m. Mercado

What he said!

Thanks, Juan. Its always a pleasure hearing from you!

 

[skinters]

These concerns should be talked to with your Si Fu, so he can give you an extra beating so you can feel that you're still learning and have more training to do.

ive never laughed so much .

your posts are a breath of fresh air .

thanks again .

i feel that something is really happening with my wingchun,theres an anticipation and excitment each time i train,and also a feeling of anxiety of the unknown wich i know is naturel .

jase.

 

[geezer]

...its like im getting better all the time and passing others in skill,those who first showed me the stance and how to relax etc,and i dont know how to deal with it

jase

Oh how tough it must be for you! LOL. I hear where you are coming from, as I have a similar problem...sort of. Well er... actually the exact reverse of it. I guess you could say that, martially speaking, I'm not the sharpest weapon hanging on the wall. It has now reached the point that both my WT and my Escrima instructors were once my juniors in the martial arts. There was a time when I had enough ego that it might have bugged me. But over the years you develop a more philosophical perspective. Now I rejoice in the knowledge that, as slow as I learn, I'll never run out of material...or people to learn from!

So if you think that it's tough being martially gifted...be thankful you don't have to deal with the reverse.

 

[KamonGuy2]

Its like I always say to my students, you train for yourself. It is not about looing good in front of others. if you feel that you aren't larning or breaking a sweat in class then you should discuss it with your Sifu.

The only thing is, watch out. I have had guys come up to me with ego thinking they have been better than other students - they were wrong. What happened was that the other studenst had been holding back on the guy!! As soon as he 'tried going harder' he got pummelled

But if you genuinely think that you have progressed faster - there should be no problem there. People learn quicker than others, thats just the way it is. I know two students (not mine I'm pleased to say) that have been training for five years and they still can't do sil lim tao!!

I trained with three other guys when I first started (we called ourselves The Four Horseman!!!). Eventually each of them dropped out. One cam back a couple of years ago and it was weird because I had learnt a lot more than him. But it didn't bother us in the end because we were good friends and I never rub it in. I train to better myself. If you train just to prove you can beat up a certain student in a spar, another 'better' student will step into his place and smack you into oblivion. Train to better yourslef and leave ego at the door

 

[graychuan]

Its like I always say to my students, you train for yourself... Train to better yourself and leave ego at the door

Your students are blessed because of this.

:ultracool

 

[skinters]

If you train just to prove you can beat up a certain student in a spar, another 'better' student will step into his place and smack you into oblivion. Train to better yourslef and leave ego at the door

i always beleive there is someone else who is better that you,and i learn as much from begginers that seniors .

when im not in class (i take two a week) im going through the forms studying from books and internet ,and i know there are those who take class with me,who after leaving class dont give it another thought.im putting the time and effort in and its starting to show.

i chisao with a guy from class who said after i must have been taking private lessons in the week ....the week before i couldnt touch him,and all the hours im spending each day are paying off .

i am getting funny looks off those who just a month ago were better than me,its really nice for my sifu to notice a big improvment,but he really put me through it when i chisao with him,and im back to square one ....great haha

im looking at it in a different way ...i suppose you cant totaly leave your ego at the door and some friendly rivalry is healthy...at the end of the day i would do anything for those i train with .

jase.

 

[matsu]

haha i,m with you geezer!

my son who doesnt practise at ALL!! is still better at picking up any new thing we learn................ i blame my age

but matt the guy who started with me, he kicks my ar~# at everything i now blame the fact he is going to extra class per week and his extensive kickboxing history. and he loves a scrap!!!

i on the other hand practise every sat/sun and weds when i do not have classes and i have aprivate lesson with sifu every month and i,m still not as good as them lol:soapbox:

but i am doing this for myself and i know i am getting better each day. my ego has dissapeared with age and life experience.so its all good!

matsu

 

[mook jong man]

I never really had this problem because i come from a big organisation, and although i was an instructor and could beat the crap out of people there was an equal number of more advanced instructors that could beat the crap out of me , and were quite happy to do so on many occasions .

Sometimes i would come home have a shower and see perfectly formed hand prints on my ribcage , in some perverse way it was a compliment to me that these men thought i could take that sort of punishment and not whinge about it.

What i used to do when i taught a class we would always have sparring at the end and usually there would be an odd number so i would get involved and chi sau spar them one after another usually about 20 people .

The problem was that being an instructor my skill level was many times higher than these people , but i still wanted to get a decent workout in as well , so what i would do is handicap myself by standing on one leg , or in chi sau sparring i would break contact and spar them with only one arm ( my one arm vs their two arms ) or i would spar them starting with my hands down by my sides .

You should train like this occasionally anyway because in a real fight one of your arms might be injured and you will only have the one to fight with and don't always train with your hands in the guard , sometimes train at defending with your hands down by your sides, it helps with initiation speed in getting your hands up quickly and in a position to intercept .

In real life you are not always going to have your guard up when somebody decides to take a shot at you.

 

[matsu]

mook- we are taught that very thing.most real life attacks come from an aggressor who wont give you the time to get your guard up even in a hands up shouders shrug"i dont want any trouble stance"!
so a lot of our drills start with our hands down.

i enjoy training with senior or more advanced, i learn more.it ups my game and although it increases the "handprints" i,m glad to wear them

matsu

 

[KamonGuy2]

mook- we are taught that very thing.most real life attacks come from an aggressor who wont give you the time to get your guard up even in a hands up shouders shrug"i dont want any trouble stance"!
so a lot of our drills start with our hands down.

i enjoy training with senior or more advanced, i learn more.it ups my game and although it increases the "handprints" i,m glad to wear them

matsu

Most real fights will come at a time when YOU WILL be able to get your hands up. When I have been in fights, 90% start off as arguments. Soemtimes, I have just been punched whilst sitting down or not in any kind of position. But if that happens - most of the time you just get knocked out!!
But I am with Mook - occasionally train hands down by the side, but do not get used to this as your main stance!! You will be easy to grab (bearhug style) or move, and people have faster hits out there (boxer)

It is great to occasionally train stuff like having a bag on your shoulder or in a sitting down position, just to see how you cope. Your body should flow and 'work out' what to do in a very short space of time

But please please please do not train every drill with your hands down - no matter how fast your hands are you are immediately at a disadvantage

 

[matsu]

thanks kamon.
we do every drill "traditionally" but we also go from the hands by side position to get that feel too!
we explore every aspect of "real" situations and i think some of our advanced guys are trying MMA so we look at the sports options too.

matsu

 

[brocklee]

and people have faster hits out there (boxer)

A boxer has faster hits then us? Then why am I throwing a punch in a straight line for? I'm definitely going to look into becoming a boxer now

 

[geezer]

A boxer has faster hits then us? Then why am I throwing a punch in a straight line for? I'm definitely going to look into becoming a boxer now

OK, this is getting totally off-topic so maybe we should start another thread, but boxers can be very fast and they do shoot a lot of straightline shots. And, yes, it's probably a good idea for WT/WC and any other martial artist to gain a passing familiarity with the art of boxing.

Speed, by the way, is not just a matter of absolute velocity or of reaction time. Distance and timing are also very important. In other words it's not about who can clock the most punches per second, but who can land a good solid shot first. "Straightline" is just one strategy to achieve this end.

 

[KamonGuy2]

A boxer has faster hits then us? Then why am I throwing a punch in a straight line for? I'm definitely going to look into becoming a boxer now

The difference is that an average boxer only uses his hands, so of course they are going to be faster in general. The difference is that if I spar with an 8 stone boxer, he does not stand a very good chance. Especially if I grab him

In wing chun, an 8 stone guy stands a very good chance of dismantling me.

Boxing punches are great at long range, and if you are the taller person in the fight you can play that game. But if you are looking for close quarter power (where most fights happen) then you need to be able to explode out from your body as opposed to your hips and muscle

 

[matsu]

The difference is that an average boxer only uses his hands, so of course they are going to be faster in general. The difference is that if I spar with an 8 stone boxer, he does not stand a very good chance. Especially if I grab him

In wing chun, an 8 stone guy stands a very good chance of dismantling me.

Boxing punches are great at long range, and if you are the taller person in the fight you can play that game. But if you are looking for close quarter power (where most fights happen) then you need to be able to explode out from your body as opposed to your hips and muscle

yeah i had major sparring sesson with a different sifu who does a lot of mma bjj and sparring and we sparred for nigh on the whole class.
matt,my favorite partner has done a lot of boxing/kickboxing and wooped me badly- the split lip and ear and the bloody nose tell the tale.-yet with two other partners i was able to deal with most of the attacks-most lol!!
i tried to shut him down but he had an answer for most of my clumsy strikes.so........
6 months gone by and i felt quite depressed last night-in fact i didnt stay for the 2nd class. i felt kike i hadnt learnt anything an that probably in a real fight i wouldnt be able to deal with the stuff i previously thought i could.
time ,yeh i know and it will come yeh i know enjoy the journey yeh i know!!
i do love this wc malarky but jeez!

matsu

 

[naneek]

yes boxers can be very fast, they can also be very hard to hit with their ability to bob and weave.