Islam is today what Christianity was in the Middle Ages?

[Cobra]

Everyone knows about the great crusades in the past and big battles between the European Christians and the Middle East Muslims. It would seem that back then the christians were the ones starting the troubles and the wars to take back the "Holy Land". In fact, it looks more like the muslims were more defending their homeland more than they were trying to pick fights with the Europeans.

European Christians even used to force people they conquer to convert into christianity. Muslims on the other hand let civilizations they conquered keep their religions as long as they pay a special tax.

Now a days christians never try to force people to convert, or be very cruel to people they try to convert. It would seem like the muslims are what christians were in the past. They always try to convert people by force into muslims. Even if they are a different tribe of muslims i.e. Shiites or Soni (however you spell those). Al Queda terrorist organization's sole purpose is to make the world Islam, even if it means doing it in cruel terrorists ways. Al Queda wouldn't like anything better to see the "evil infidels of the United States" be driven into the ocean.

Many people I know say that is muslims are very bad people, and you can't trust them and what not. But then I think, weren't christians once like that? It has brought me to a conclusion that I think most monotheistic religions go through this phase. What do you think?

 

[Touch Of Death]

Its called extreem fundamentalism.

 

[Josh]

oh man. i know what you're saying. just people trying to shove their beliefs and force them, even in violent ways. but even Jesus didn't force, it's a choice, He has ears, Let Him hear.

 

[Cryozombie]

Now a days christians never try to force people to convert, or be very cruel to people they try to convert. It would seem like the muslims are what christians were in the past. They always try to convert people by force into muslims. Even if they are a different tribe of muslims i.e. Shiites or Soni (however you spell those).

Many people I know say that is muslims are very bad people, and you can't trust them and what not. But then I think, weren't christians once like that? It has brought me to a conclusion that I think most monotheistic religions go through this phase. What do you think?

I think MOST Muslims who truly follow their teachings are peaceful people. I think that their are plenty of examples of Muslims acting in the manner you post about, but really, its odd Sects of the Religion not neccessarily "The Religion" as a whole.

 

[Taimishu]

oh man. i know what you're saying. just people trying to shove their beliefs and force them, even in violent ways. but even Jesus didn't force, it's a choice, He has ears, Let Him hear.

Korea
Vietnam
Afganistan
Iraq

Some would say wheres the difference?

David

 

[Cruentus]

Korea
Vietnam
Afganistan
Iraq

Some would say wheres the difference?

David

When you have a president who gets on Television and says that "he pray'd on it" as part of his justification for pre-emptively going into Iraq, it makes it hard to argue that "we" aren't the fundamentalists as well.

 

[MisterMike]

I know, isn't it great that in America we can choose our religion?

With the quality of evidence coming from the CIA you probably have to pray it's correct :boing2:

 

[loki09789]

There is a big difference between the medieval period crusader missions of controlling the holy land/spice trade routes and this current situation.

Firstly, the muslims were not protecting themselves in their own backyard, they were part of an Empire that had spread through territories far beyond its origins (including N.Africa, SPain, S. Italy and other parts of western Europe - especially along the Med. Sea). The Shakespearean Play "Othello" is about a Moor/Muslim in Italy. It was really about two old world super power affiliations battling over a piece of dirt that had political/business as well as religious significance.

Conversion of the citizenry during the Muslim empire's growth/existence was just as commonly done - and usually at the end of a sword or after beheading a member of a village or group of prisoners - as it was for the 'christians' of the crusades. Remember that during those days, religion and political loyalty were one. No separation of church and state. The general practice of letting conquered people keep their religion/culture was common to Greeks, Romans as well. It was smart business because usually the gifts of knowledge, trade, medicine, science.... were directly linked to that religion and culture because education was not a public instititution but a religious institution. Today religion is usually advertised as being about a closer link to personal fulfillment/salvation, but in the medieval period it was more about social/political/business networking than personal faith. Also, there was usually a lower citizenry status/caste associated with being a non-Muslim/Roman/Greek... in that empires political power structure that made for a glass ceiling for upward mobility.

The conversion process is part of the reason that they called it the Holy Wars as well. The crusades existed in three (I think it was three) separate campaigns that covered a very long time. So, making a general statement about them is tough. Each one had its own spin/style/problems.

As far as prejudice and "christian" prejudice, yup but I wouldn't call it 'christian' in this country as much as American since the majority of Americans are not practicing faith people as much as folk/socially associated/religious people. Ain't it grand that I see people take a second, third and a guilty fourth glance as the women who wears the head covering is in the grocery store. I smiled at a seemingly muslim woman w/her baby who was as cute as pie and told her so while my wife and I were grocery shopping.... she stammered and didn't know what to say for a second. My suspicion is that she is far more use to having to put on the 'stone face' to get through the day so she doesn't feel like a bug under a microscope.

 

[someguy]

Dag nab it Loki you beat me to the punch. If only I had check out what was going on here yesterday...
There were more than three crusades though. I don't know enough bout after the third crusade to say boo at but I know there was a 4th crusade of a sort.
Let's see what I can remember about the crusades with out a book near. The first was a call take the lands. 2nd to hold the lands and third to retake them. I may be confusing them the crusads aren't an area I know much about.
The Fourth Crusade didn't reached the Holy Land I think. As I said I don't know much about it give me a while and I may remember to look some stuff up about it if any one is intrested.