Is there a right way to display a Samurai Sword in a bedroom?

[Donovank2277]

Hello everyone!

This is my first time here! I had a quick question regarding proper way to display Swords in a bedroom, I have read that the blade always faces up and the order would go Tanto on top tier, Wakasashi on middle tier, and finally Katana on the bottom...My question regards the handle direction, I have read on a few occations that the handles being on the right side is more aggressive and usually they would go on the left but I have them in my bedroom and at some point awhile ago I think I read somewhere that it isnt good to have the tip of a sword facing your bed or even have the swords displayed visible from your bed...that being said I have them off to the side but was hoping someone here might have more insight?

Thank you for your help!

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

The tip of your sword should always point to your door (to let your sword to stab the intruders instead of to let your sword to stab your own family members). Don't ask me why. It's just the oriental ancient tradition.

 

[hussaf]

No clue about bedroom specifics.

Generally: Blade up and handle to the right for sword you want easily accessible for use (like a training hall). Handle left and blade down for "storage" (blade down to help the clove oil roll down and build up on the ha, and handle left to show it's not meant to appear aggressive).

 

[Ken Morgan]

My sword is in a bag, propped up against a corner, waiting for me to take it back to practice. I have another one, bagged and propped up in my closet.
At practice, the edge faces the wall, the handle is pointed towards the high point of the room.
After 15 years of iaido I have never seen nor heard of any practitioner displaying their sword in anyway. It's a tool we use in our business. I doubt a plumber would hang a crescent wrench above his bed, or an accountant her adding machine.
What art do you practice?

 

[Donovank2277]

My sword is in a bag, propped up against a corner, waiting for me to take it back to practice. I have another one, bagged and propped up in my closet.
At practice, the edge faces the wall, the handle is pointed towards the high point of the room.
After 15 years of iaido I have never seen nor heard of any practitioner displaying their sword in anyway. It's a tool we use in our business. I doubt a plumber would hang a crescent wrench above his bed, or an accountant her adding machine.
What art do you practice?

well...that confuses me. You mention in class pretty specific ways of placing your sword against the wall yet also mention youve never heard of any practitioner displaying their sword in anyway? I assume you place your sword that specific way for traditional reasons? I am not concerned about the actual "display" part, like to show them off or anything, which is why their in my room, to keep away from my kids or any potential intruder. That being said, I am wondering if there is a specific or traditional way of keeping them when not in use? Like others have noted they store them blade up toward the heavens so the sharp side doesnt rest on the sheath and handle to left is non aggresive and to the right is a way to access quickly which is "more aggressive" these are traditional display methods I have read about but wasnt sure if a blade pointing toward my bed is a "no no"....but maybe im reading too much into it...oh yea by the way...I just started Batto Do...and I am a beginner obviously but for instance in the beginning or before we start a Kata we place our sword specifically a certain way in front of us and bow to it to honor the maker and never step over our Katana...several specific ways of going about things...which is why I was wondering about storing them...I mean no disrespect at all...its hard to type a response or question and also convey sincerety...I get what your saying about it being a tool and a plumber wouldnt hang his wrench above his bed but he wouldnt bow to it either before practicing with it..and he would place it in a tool box because its specifically made for it, as is a Katana stand...but it seems maybe I am reading too much into it and shouldnt really wory about how it rests in my home...Thank you!

 

[elder999]

Since it's in the bedroom, I have to say that "aggressive" or not, the sword in the scabbard is a treasure beyond compare. :lol:

 

[shesulsa]

I too do not display my blades, though I've been told the swordsperson who actively fights has the handle to the side of his/her dominant hand and with the blade upwards and if retired the handle is towards the non-dominant side and blade down. *shrug* Mine is next to my bedside leaning against the wall. Others in closet, others in safe.

 

[hoshin1600]

i have to put in my two cents here,,, we are talking about a Japanese sword, yes? ok so i have to disagree with this idea of the sword being a tool. im sorry but that is a modern and western view. "the sword is the soul of the samurai" its a very common saying. The sword is one of the three sacred treasures Imperial Regalia of Japan - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia prior to the Meiji era the sword in a samurai home was always displayed. if you threw it in a closet you would probably be disowned by your family and lord. not only did the sword have religious meaning it was also a symbol of your status in society. without it you were a commoner. i will admit there were "battle" swords and low grade swords that might have a tool type status in earlier times in Japan but as the refinement of society progressed so did the status of the sword. many swords are named, and thought to absorb the ki or the owner. as westeners we think of Japanese battles with swords but the reality is that the Yumi, naginata and yari were by far more important in combat. but to answer the original question...as with all things Japanese there are many rules concerning the "proper way" but most would be mundane and would not apply to you. traditional Japanese homes did not have "bedrooms" persay they had walls that moved and could be removed. every space in a home had multiple uses so there would be no rules applying to a bedroom. bedrooms are a western architecture design. yes the blade always goes up. i have never heard of a blade facing down "to let the oil run" you never had a oily blade. you oil, wipe clean and then powder the blade. the only blade that would go down is for a Tachi sword that is designed to be worn that way. This is a pre-katana more chinese design. as far as the tip pointing, it should never be pointed toward a religious items like a butsudan or kamidana. i can assume this would be the same for a picture of Jesus or a cross hanging on the wall. in short you are disrespecting anything you point it at so yes your bed would be a no no. a common way to keep a sword would be in a tokonama space. it doesnt have to be big. it could just be a corner of a room with a raised floor and a wall hanging. you could hang a rack on the wall or if you only had one sword you could keep it on a vertical stand.

 

[elder999]

i prior to the Meiji era the sword in a samurai home was always displayed. if you threw it in a closet you would probably be disowned by your family and lord. not only did the sword have religious meaning it was also a symbol of your status in society. without it you were a commoner.

There have always been "katana dansu," or sword cabinets-some meant for display, some just to put away.

Most of what I've seen in regard to orientation is in line with what I've heard before-blade up, katana on top rung of the kake, tsuba to the left. It's good enough for Otake sensei, and a few other authorities, it's good enough for me. As with all things Japanese, though, there are likely exceptions to the exceptions to the rule.....(amd that "tsuba to the left no aggression" thing? Likely merely being "polite." Odds are good there's a whole corpus of technique on removing and quickly drawing the sword from the kake with the tsuba on the left...)

In closing, I guess I'd say that it's your bedroom and your sword; show them how you want to....

 

[crushing]

This thread reminds me of this-

 

[Donovank2277]

Thank you!!! That answers my question! I really appreciate your response!

 

[donald1]

i like to leave my weapons on a rack, they look nice grouped on a a rack i got 3 of them (first one holds 7weapons 2 bo staffs 1 naginata 1 spear 1 eku and 1 guan dao 1 hellebarde) the second one goes on the wall (5 swords 1 tanto 1 wakizashi 1 katana 1 roman longsword and 1 jian) the third one is my favorite, it only holds 1 weapon though a katana i got when I visited japan (i keep it beside the bed, i don't trust my neighbors, bunch of weirdos lot of them)
But that's just how I do it, traditional way seems nice but sometimes it's nice to Do your own thing and that's what I did, good luck weapon placing

 

[Chris Parker]

With Ken (and a few others) answering here, I didn't enter into it, but there are a few things I'd like to expand on or clarify...

well...that confuses me. You mention in class pretty specific ways of placing your sword against the wall yet also mention youve never heard of any practitioner displaying their sword in anyway?

Ken wasn't talking about "display" methods, he was talking about how the swords are placed in the dojo for training. To be honest, most practitioners don't tend to have their swords on display… they have them for usage. Collectors, on the other hand, have displays…

I assume you place your sword that specific way for traditional reasons?

Kinda, but kinda not. There are very practical reasons, going from basic safety through to having a uniform placement of the training tools through to more etiquette-based reasons.

I am not concerned about the actual "display" part, like to show them off or anything, which is why their in my room, to keep away from my kids or any potential intruder.

Cool… in that case, I'd side completely with Ken. I have, well, a relatively substantial arsenal of training tools (and some real weapons as well), most of which "live" in my bedroom. They're simply in a corner of the room, bunched up together. I do have a couple of katana-kake (sword stands), but they're for ease of access to bokuto in most cases.

That being said, I am wondering if there is a specific or traditional way of keeping them when not in use?

Well, yeah. It's not necessarily uniform, though, as different locations and time-periods in Japan had different preferences… but, when it comes to having a "display", if you're displaying the sword in it's saya (scabbard), and it's going to be on display for a long time, it's not uncommon to remove the actual blade and replace it with a bamboo one, in order to display the koshirae (fittings, the tsuba, tsuka, saya, sageo etc), and to house the blade in a "plain saya" (shirasaya) for it's protection. You never display a shirasaya, though, it's kinda the opposite to it's function… which is why I laugh when I see some of the Chinese-produced weapons with shirasaya sold with the description "Great for Display!", ha!

Like others have noted they store them blade up toward the heavens so the sharp side doesnt rest on the sheath and handle to left is non aggresive and to the right is a way to access quickly which is "more aggressive" these are traditional display methods I have read about but wasnt sure if a blade pointing toward my bed is a "no no"....but maybe im reading too much into it…

Yeah, probably reading too much into it… I'll put it this way: Traditionally, you wouldn't "display" weaponry in your bedroom… if you want to, you get to make up your own rules.

oh yea by the way...I just started Batto Do...and I am a beginner obviously but for instance in the beginning or before we start a Kata we place our sword specifically a certain way in front of us and bow to it to honor the maker and never step over our Katana...several specific ways of going about things...which is why I was wondering about storing them...I mean no disrespect at all...its hard to type a response or question and also convey sincerety...I get what your saying about it being a tool and a plumber wouldnt hang his wrench above his bed but he wouldnt bow to it either before practicing with it..and he would place it in a tool box because its specifically made for it, as is a Katana stand...but it seems maybe I am reading too much into it and shouldnt really wory about how it rests in my home...Thank you!

Cool. The thing to realise with the reiho and so forth is that it's as much about safety as any spiritual reasoning in most cases… you hold the sword a certain way, place it on the ground a particular way, manipulate the sageo in a certain fashion etc etc for a sense of awareness of where the entire sword is at all times, and to ensure that the sword doesn't fall out of the saya or anything similar… you don't step over it in case you slip, the sword isn't put away properly etc, and you cut yourself open… the bowing can be seen as reminding yourself that you're about to start swinging around a two-and-a-half foot razor blade (hopefully, though, as a beginner you're using an iaito, yeah?), so awareness has to come to the fore.

Just out of interest, which system of Batto are you studying?

i have to put in my two cents here,,, we are talking about a Japanese sword, yes? ok so i have to disagree with this idea of the sword being a tool. im sorry but that is a modern and western view.

Hi Hoshin,

Speaking as someone who's training involves 5 distinct sword systems, yeah, the sword is a tool. That's not all it is, but yeah, it's a tool. Same as many others. Specific reverence might be paid to it in some systems, but it's more commonly seen as just another of the warriors tools (the actual term for weapon in Japanese is "Buki" 武器, which literally translates as "warrior/martial tool"&#8230.

"the sword is the soul of the samurai" its a very common saying.

And a fairly modern one, honestly.

The sword is one of the three sacred treasures Imperial Regalia of Japan - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Sure, along with the mirror and jewel… but the sword there isn't a katana… and the reasons for it being part of the treasures doesn't relate to it's usage as a warriors weapon, or even the samurai themselves… as well as predating such ideals for the katana itself.

prior to the Meiji era the sword in a samurai home was always displayed. if you threw it in a closet you would probably be disowned by your family and lord. not only did the sword have religious meaning it was also a symbol of your status in society. without it you were a commoner.

No, not really… commoners were allowed to own swords, even wear them… it was only after about 1630 that the edict of "only samurai could wear Daisho" came about… and even after that, any commoner could wear a long or short sword, just not both together. The main thing stopping them was the cost of the weapons… but some wealthy merchants could afford them, and did own them. As far as "throwing the sword in a closet" leading to being disowned by the family and lord? No, can't say I've ever come across anything like that… after all, putting the blade in a shirasaya, the closet is exactly where you would put it… it'd be a controllable (to a degree) location in terms of temperature, humidity etc… a closet's actually a pretty good spot for a sword. And, as mentioned earlier, if the koshirae are on display, typically the "sword" isn't… so the idea of "the sword was always displayed" isn't actually accurate either.

i will admit there were "battle" swords and low grade swords that might have a tool type status in earlier times in Japan but as the refinement of society progressed so did the status of the sword. many swords are named, and thought to absorb the ki or the owner.

The idea of absorbing the ki of the owner was not unique to swords, of course. It could apply to any weapon… so there's no separation to distinguish a katana here. There are many examples of yari, for instance, that were named, or famous the same way a sword was.

as westeners we think of Japanese battles with swords but the reality is that the Yumi, naginata and yari were by far more important in combat.

True. Of course, guns later became quite a major aspect as well (after the first three were purchased by the lord of Tanegashima Island, and given to his katanakaji [sword smith] to replicate, Japan quickly got so far into mass-production that they had more guns than Europe)… but do you know what the most common weapon to start a battle was? It was rocks. Both sides would throw rocks at each other. In fact, there were places where religious ceremonies would be held, and the offering brought would be a rock to bolster the supplies for the local daimyo and his ranks.

but to answer the original question...as with all things Japanese there are many rules concerning the "proper way" but most would be mundane and would not apply to you. traditional Japanese homes did not have "bedrooms" persay they had walls that moved and could be removed. every space in a home had multiple uses so there would be no rules applying to a bedroom. bedrooms are a western architecture design.

Not entirely true, there were often designated areas for sleeping, but again, it depends on exactly when and where you're talking about… as well as the station/position of the householder… obviously, a more well-to-do family would have a more elaborate house, which would allow for more specialist areas, whereas a lower-income family would have more of a "studio apartment" kinda abode.

yes the blade always goes up. i have never heard of a blade facing down "to let the oil run" you never had a oily blade. you oil, wipe clean and then powder the blade. the only blade that would go down is for a Tachi sword that is designed to be worn that way.

Yep, but that of course is only in the way it's worn (unless the wearer was a gunner&#8230, storage is another thing. Often tachi were stored standing up (tsuka at the bottom) on individual stands.

This is a pre-katana more chinese design.

In terms of the sword, I don't quite see the "Chinese design" of a tachi… it very much is a katana with a different mounting/koshirae set-up in most regards. In fact, the early katana (uchigatana) were the partner swords to tachi. There were earlier swords (pre-dating tachi), often referred to as tsurugi (or ken &#21091 that were very much Chinese-design, but the tachi was a fairly radical departure from that.

as far as the tip pointing, it should never be pointed toward a religious items like a butsudan or kamidana. i can assume this would be the same for a picture of Jesus or a cross hanging on the wall. in short you are disrespecting anything you point it at so yes your bed would be a no no. a common way to keep a sword would be in a tokonama space. it doesnt have to be big. it could just be a corner of a room with a raised floor and a wall hanging. you could hang a rack on the wall or if you only had one sword you could keep it on a vertical stand.

Certain "rules" were easy to follow in a Japanese-style house… it might not be so easy in a Western one… Personally, I wouldn't worry too much, especially about anything so hard and fast, as, as mentioned, there wouldn't be swords on display there anyway.

There have always been "katana dansu," or sword cabinets-some meant for display, some just to put away.

Most of what I've seen in regard to orientation is in line with what I've heard before-blade up, katana on top rung of the kake, tsuba to the left. It's good enough for Otake sensei, and a few other authorities, it's good enough for me. As with all things Japanese, though, there are likely exceptions to the exceptions to the rule.....(amd that "tsuba to the left no aggression" thing? Likely merely being "polite." Odds are good there's a whole corpus of technique on removing and quickly drawing the sword from the kake with the tsuba on the left...)

In closing, I guess I'd say that it's your bedroom and your sword; show them how you want to....

This last line from Elder really sums it all up… if you want to display them in your bedroom, it's your bedroom, and your choice!

 

[shesulsa]

If you are a serious student ... ask your sensei.

If you're a collector ... who cares?



Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I337 using Tapatalk

 

[hoshin1600]

hey chris,
your reply shows your depth of knowledge which i have seen many times from your posts. my post was short and not ment to go into a lot of detail and specifics. i agree with most of what you said but i would like to discuss one thing, this whole weapon as a tool thing. while this is a correct statement, i have a pet peave about the usual comment and the way it is used. i hear this statement a lot from the modern military. i feel its a way to deflect the responsibilty and guilt associated with the fact that they have to kill. "its my job and this is my tool" having the luxury myself of not having to go out on patrol everyday i can disagree with this statement although i understand it from their perspective. it is not this view that bothers me it is the infered oposite view that is implied, that a "tool" is nothing special and has no significance and can be treated poorly. "the plumbers wrench". having been in the home improvment buisness i can attest to the fact that often tools are thrown into crappy looking boxes or buckets as if they are disposable. tools are banged up dented and broken. however this is not the way a real craftsmen treats his tools. you look at any machinist worth his wieght and you will see a lot of care taken when handling his tools. the same for any fine woodworker or many other trades. this care of tools is from my perspective lost on the current generations. my greatgrand fathers era would not treat their tools badly because this was the way they made their living and if it was broken or damaged it may not have been possible to replace it and they would go hungry. i take this view on the samurai sword as well. you can say it is a tool and this would be correct but the way this statement is often taken is that it can be treated poorly with no special mindfullness. so i prefer to call it what it is .. a WEAPON, something that deserves great care in handleing and should be used thoughtfully after all its only use is to take a human life and that is not something to be take lightly.

 

[hoshin1600]

chris,
when i mentioned the tachi, i was thinking more about the evolution of the sword in general and was thinking more about the mountings then the blade. there is a clear evolution and influence from the chinese styles to the earlier japanese designs. the edge up carry was a significant departure from the prior swords, as you know. ....History of Chinese swords | Sword history totaly different swords but the infulence is there. i was only trying to point out that in many movies or pictures you see a sword with the blade down and most people will be confused by this not knowing that it is a tachi and depending on the style of tachi you really couldnt tell the difference unless you could see the mountings in the picture.

 

[Chris Parker]

hey chris,

Hi Hoshin

your reply shows your depth of knowledge which i have seen many times from your posts. my post was short and not ment to go into a lot of detail and specifics.

Ha, thanks. And I get that your post wasn't meant to be all the answers in one hit… the issue, of course, is that the more you generalise and simplify, the less accurate it gets… which is why I often give a little more detail, just to help avoid inaccuracies.

i agree with most of what you said but i would like to discuss one thing, this whole weapon as a tool thing.

Cool.

while this is a correct statement, i have a pet peave about the usual comment and the way it is used. i hear this statement a lot from the modern military. i feel its a way to deflect the responsibilty and guilt associated with the fact that they have to kill. "its my job and this is my tool" having the luxury myself of not having to go out on patrol everyday i can disagree with this statement although i understand it from their perspective. it is not this view that bothers me it is the infered oposite view that is implied, that a "tool" is nothing special and has no significance and can be treated poorly. "the plumbers wrench". having been in the home improvment buisness i can attest to the fact that often tools are thrown into crappy looking boxes or buckets as if they are disposable. tools are banged up dented and broken. however this is not the way a real craftsmen treats his tools. you look at any machinist worth his wieght and you will see a lot of care taken when handling his tools. the same for any fine woodworker or many other trades. this care of tools is from my perspective lost on the current generations. my greatgrand fathers era would not treat their tools badly because this was the way they made their living and if it was broken or damaged it may not have been possible to replace it and they would go hungry. i take this view on the samurai sword as well. you can say it is a tool and this would be correct but the way this statement is often taken is that it can be treated poorly with no special mindfullness. so i prefer to call it what it is .. a WEAPON, something that deserves great care in handleing and should be used thoughtfully after all its only use is to take a human life and that is not something to be take lightly.

Sure, but you have to realise that that is your interpretation of the term "tool"… for instance, to me, a tool is an object used that is suitable to it's purpose… there's no implication of it being treated badly at all. In fact, I'd suggest that it's only the worse trades that have such an attitude towards their tools. I'd think of the idea of a sword being a tool the same way I'd consider a rifle a tool of a soldier.. again, it's not something that gets just left to rust… a soldier takes great care of his rifle, as it can be the difference between life and death for them… and it really is just a tool in their repertoire… same as a sword for a samurai.

chris,
when i mentioned the tachi, i was thinking more about the evolution of the sword in general and was thinking more about the mountings then the blade. there is a clear evolution and influence from the chinese styles to the earlier japanese designs. the edge up carry was a significant departure from the prior swords, as you know. ....History of Chinese swords | Sword history totaly different swords but the infulence is there. i was only trying to point out that in many movies or pictures you see a sword with the blade down and most people will be confused by this not knowing that it is a tachi and depending on the style of tachi you really couldnt tell the difference unless you could see the mountings in the picture.

Hmm… the thing is, the tachi was the departure from Chinese blade design, not the katana. The katana was more realistically just a variation on the tachi. In fact, the main reason that the mountings for tachi are the way they are is less to do with earlier Chinese-based designs, and more to do with the changes in warfare methods, which were giving rise to a greater emphasis on mounted combat. The edge-up carry method (katana) developed from a smaller tachi when foot soldiers came back to the fore, and was worn as a companion sword, known as an uchigatana.

 

[hoshin1600]

Chris,
like i had mentioned, the blade itself is as you say the departure. i was only thinking about the mountings. but one could argue that while there might have been a rise in the mounted samurai tactics, there would be no real innovation for the design in the mountings or method of carry, the innovations for the mounted combat would be the length and curvature. the edge down method had worked well for the chinese and mongols for quite sometime i would think and it was more just a continuation of "the way it has always been done" i do not know of an edge up carry untill the katana/ uchigatana in japan. so this would be my assumption.
i should add i love inteligent conversation about martial arts even if i am wrong.

 

[donald1]

It's okay to be wrong, I know I'm wrong often, and most martial arts... No hardly of em(besides the ones I practice) but you know what it doesn't matter cause that's how you learn. You either ask questions and get the right answer, say the wrong answer and someone tells the correct answer besides you don't just wake up understanding how a whole style works im sure all the really smart people been in this situation

Best of luck

 

[Chris Parker]

Chris,
like i had mentioned, the blade itself is as you say the departure. i was only thinking about the mountings.

The mountings are related directly to the blade design and usage, though.

but one could argue that while there might have been a rise in the mounted samurai tactics, there would be no real innovation for the design in the mountings or method of carry, the innovations for the mounted combat would be the length and curvature.

"One could argue"? It's pretty widely accepted that the reason the tachi developed was specifically due to the rise in mounted tactics. Additionally, if we're limiting the discussion to the mountings, while there are superficial similarities between earlier Chinese and Chinese-based designs (jian/tsurugi), it really is relatively superficial… the way the jian/tsurugi was attached to the obi was higher and tighter, with the angle of the blade far more consistent… there were also "softer" scabbards, rather than the more solid ones utilised from tachi onwards… and the reason is pretty simply that the more "restrained" holding/mounting of the tsurugi was suited to being on foot, but tachi (which were mounted lower, with a deeper angle, and more "play" in the position) are mounted as such to allow easier drawing of the sword on horseback.

the edge down method had worked well for the chinese and mongols for quite sometime i would think and it was more just a continuation of "the way it has always been done"

Well, for one thing, the only Chinese designs that really came across to Japan were double-edged versions, so the idea of "edge down" didn't really apply. And the entire design of the tachi was not based on the earlier Chinese forms… which has been my point.

i do not know of an edge up carry untill the katana/ uchigatana in japan. so this would be my assumption.

It's most common in short blade design. In Japanese arts, some claim that Hasegawa Hidenobu, the 7th head of the Eishin Ryu, was responsible for popularising the wearing of the primary sword with the edge up, as he altered earlier techniques for tachi to what is now referred to as Hasegawa Eishin Ryu, forming the Chuden section of both Muso Jikiden Eishin Ryu and Muso Shinden Ryu respectively, as that gave a slight advantage in speed to a draw… although it should be noted that there is not any real evidence outside of oral tradition to back that up.

The problem with the assumption, though, is that there's no real back-up to it, so while it might make sense to you, it's going to lead you down the wrong path.

i should add i love inteligent conversation about martial arts even if i am wrong.

Ha, cool. Agreed!