Is it the art or the artist?

[ldgman1970]

Hi all,


When I joined this site about over a month ago I was looking for martial art to study and after much research I decided upon Kenpo. At any rate I am very happy with the art and the school I am at and the other day I mentioned to one of my friends what I was studying and she proceeded to tell me that JKD is the best art hands down. Now obviously she is extremely biased but it did get me thinking about this issue of whether certain arts would have the upper hand over others.

We all probably have a bias to the art we study but isn't it more a question of the individual and their mastery of the art as supposed to the actual art they study?

 

[TigerWoman]

I would think that anyone who has chosen to study an art and is well into it, devoted alot of time and energy would be believing that its the best thing for him at the time. If he/she gets back what he puts into it. It all comes down to that--100% effort = results. I'm TKD but I'm sure I would like Kenpo, Kung Fu and maybe a few others. Everybody has choices what's good for them. So its all good if its good for them. TW

 

[Vadim]

I believe it is the artist that makes the martial art. Yes you learn a set curriculum from your instructors, but each and every person is unique and in my opinion adds their own special flavor to their chosen martial art. No one martial art is better than any other. I feel that the person makes the choice as to what martial art they want to express themselves in. Just keep training hard and keep an open mind to other styles and methods of martial arts expression.

-Vadim

 

[still learning]

Hello, Don't mind your friend...I had many friends tell me the same, our style is better, and a few months later they quit,most say no time? I wonder? cause they said it was the best!
I found ,if I like teacher and his teaching stlye,I end up staying in school, the students interaction is important thing for me too...it is nice to make new friendship ,having others willing to help and share. Nice to get lots of encouragement. Great schools are like this! It is not the art, but the artist!!!!
Most important?...that you enjoy the class...even when it gets harder...winners win...because winners keep on going! BE a winner! Aloha

 

[Oak Bo]

I would say, as long as you're enjoying the system that you're in, seeing good results and are having fun with it, then that is the best system.
:asian:

 

[Touch Of Death]

She is both right and wrong, the philosophy of JKD really attacks some popular matial arts training methods as being counter productive. For example, a lot of the lock-out, you find your self doing out of a horse, teaches you to put on the breaks at a time when you should be already returned to another point of reference for a decision and a strike. Basic patterns are also frowned upon but complex patterns especialy. The very fact that its a pattern runs counter to the basic concepts of timming. Mr. Parker said, "now is now". The concept of sticking to a pattern in the face of variation brought on by reality is a dilema JKD tries to avoid. Kenpo does not lack this realization, but the training methods must be approached intelegently.
Sean

 

[MA-Caver]

Is it the Art or the artist?
To me the answer is simple... the artist that puts the most time into their system/art/style. It's arrogant (and IMO wrong) to say this art is better than the other. Ask your friend if they would go up against say a 5th Dan Kenpoist or a high ranking Akidioist or any other art.
If they're not black belts themselves... I'd put my money on the guys who've been in their art for years.
I've been studying (various) MA for years and feel confident enough to hold my own... against a non-MA-ist (or friendly sparring with a MA-ist), but I know personally several black belt Kenpoists and I tell myself ... don't - ever - ever have a reason to "seriously get into it" with any of those guys. Hands down they'll kick my **** from one end of the dojo to the other...probably not even break a sweat. Except trying not to get my blood on their GI's.

 

[shesulsa]

IMHO, there are arts that seem to be more ecclectic - more inclusive, and I think an art that encompasses at least parts of others may "have it" over others simply in the exposure factor and general understanding, provided it specializes in certian areas it calls its own.

Above and beyond that, it is mostly the artist that makes the art, the system, the school, etcetera.

 

[Flatlander]

Hi everybody! :wavey:


I'd like to add my two cents to this. It is both the art and the artist, if you are trying to determine the combative value. The art must be something which addresses all ranges of combat, and the artist must be someone who will apply themselves completely to learning it.

I wouldn't worry about it much, though. Your Kenpo will serve you just fine. Continue to apply yourself to your training, and you'll come to understand that. And I wouldn't sweat the person claiming JKD is the best either. The fact is, many of the folk who claim they are doing JKD really don't understand what they are talking about. Furthermore, there is no one definition of JKD, so anybody who claims that JKD is the best art is making a non-sensical assertion.
:asian:

 

[ldgman1970]

I didn't expect so many replies so quickly. I just wanted to confirm what I kind of thought already. I am just learning the basic techniques and to learn these basics I learn them as a counter to a certain mode of attack. One thing my instructor pointed out is that everything is taught in an ideal mode but through years of learning I will be able to modify these moves to fit whatever kind of attack comes my way.

What's really cool is when one of my group class instructors actually shows us how these "techniques" can be modified and built upon in a real fight. In the last class he even showed us a technique that he admits looks a lot like JKD.

 

[tshadowchaser]

The art supplies the techniques that may help you some day. It is up to the practioner to learn and perfect these techniques. No one art has all the answeres for everyone. Each of us is different and may require a different art to forfill our needs.
Take the time to really learn the art you have choosen and you may find answeres to questions that you have not even thought of yet

 

[8253]

A Martial Art is only as good as the Martial Artist.

 

[baguan]

martial arts are the same as all other things in existence...

for example, you may liken this question to this one and gain perspective....

"is it the car or the driver of the car that makes travel safe and effective?" - the answer is obvious. you need a decent car (a system of martial strategy
etc.), and an attentive and capable driver/mechanic to operate the vehicle and maintain/improve its function/purpose (dedicated free thinking-devoted practitioner of the 'art').

hope this makes sense....
just woke up....
~b

 

[Flatlander]

baguan, excellent first post, and welcome to Martial Talk! As you may have already discovered, there is a veritable feast of great information throughout the various sub-forums here. Please help yourself to whatever you like, participate in any you choose, and feel free to ask any questions that you may have.

On behalf of the staff here, please enjoy your stay, and happy posting!

-Dan Bowman-
-MT Moderator-

 

[Kenpo Mama]

Wow Dan you beat me to it, yes Baguan excellent first post. Really puts it in perspective. Learn all that you can about your art, be open and accepting and practice, practice, practice what you learn. You can only receive from your art what you give to it.

Have a great day.

Donna :ultracool

 

[ace]

Hi all,


When I joined this site about over a month ago I was looking for martial art to study and after much research I decided upon Kenpo. At any rate I am very happy with the art and the school I am at and the other day I mentioned to one of my friends what I was studying and she proceeded to tell me that JKD is the best art hands down. Now obviously she is extremely biased but it did get me thinking about this issue of whether certain arts would have the upper hand over others.

We all probably have a bias to the art we study but isn't it more a question of the individual and their mastery of the art as supposed to the actual art they study?

It's the Artist Not The art........
As far as what Martial Art is Best the answer is
diffent for the person who is seaking Truth...

For Example What good would Boxing Be if I had no hands.

 

[chinto01]

Glad you found an art that you enjoy. of course mostly everyone will tell you that they feel their art is superior. My suggestion to you is to keep an open mind and take things from other arts and bring them into yours. They all came from somewhere and if you trace the roots back far enough it may just be the same place. Good training!!

 

[achilles]

Marial arts does not exist independently of martial artists. They are simply mental artifacts. That is why there is also no such thing as an absolutely correct technique. In mathematics, I can tell someone that if they follow a particular algorhythm (sp?) that they will get the correct answer with the presupposition that it is the the correct forumula, etc. Martial arts simply don't work that way. There are too many things that could happen, unknown factors and simply dumb luck. While virtually everyone affirms the functionality of a particular martial arts element by training or using it in some way, these are simply conjecture and have no absolute truth. That is why it is possible for a person to "do everything right" and still lose a fight. The dynamic relationship between the fighters is constantly in flux and cannot, with certainty, be reduced to a deterministic level of analysis.

My point of this rant is that it must be the artist because there is clearly no art.

 

[Sin]

he weapion is only as powerful as the one who wields it



Artist hands down

 

[9RingsSensei]

I think it's the artist. The art could be really cool and the artist could suck. I don't think a 500 lb. guy would make JKD look very good. Lol If a taekwondoist weren't dedicated to practicing, he'd suck, not taekwondo. I don't think there is a superior art. I've taken TKD, JKD, karate, and kung fu and here's what I found: I didn't like karate or JKD (mainly cause JKD was alittle too difficult, but I LOVE the founder). It's really what works for the person taking it. Just because TKD works for me, doesn't mean it'll work for you. If JKD works for you, be glad, cause it doesn't work for me!

*bows* :asian:

Rebecca