Is Abuse A Legal Justification For Murder?

[MJS]

The title is right from the article.

Apparently, a woman had been put thru years of abuse from her husband. She shot him while he was in bed. Now, the question of whether or not this was premeditated or a case of 'snapping' after all the abuse.

Here is some of the article.

The case of Mary Winkler, the minister’s wife who allegedly shot her husband Matthew in the back while he lay in bed, is now in the jury’s hands. The burning question on everyone’s mind is "why did she do it?" Was it first-degree premeditated murder, or did the mild-mannered woman just “snap” after enduring abuse? If convicted, she faces life in prison with the possibility of parole.

 

[elder999]

Short answer-sometimes. It depends upon the mental state of the abused person, or, at least, how the defense presents it, but there is legal and psychological precedent, in several jurisdictions.

Have a look HERE

 

[shesulsa]

When you're being throttled by someone you fell in love with or a family member who is a sibling or a parent or who swears they love you, especially if you have been raised with a subservient mindset such as the church can deliver or a controlling, abusive parent, the last thing on your mind at that moment is fighting back. The FIRST thing on your mind is minimizing the damage to yourself by either hiding, cow-towing, shielding yourself, begging, pleading, etcetera. It is the pattern. It's the only thing you know and every way feels like potential death.

You think about calling the authorities, going to the hospital, telling a friend, a friend's parent, a teacher, a neighbor ... but you know they've seen the bruises before, even asked about them, but looked the other way. They've even begun to avoid you and you become grateful so that you are no longer embarrassed about your appearance and no longer have to lie about your condition ... or your life.

Once it's over and you have wiped the blood away, donned the bandages and pancake makeup or put the pajamas on and everyone's in bed, your attacker asleep and quiet, finally vulnerable ... *then* your mind engages into some dark places no one wants to admit are there.

You begin to think that you will, at some unprovoked, unpredictable moment, die at the hands of this person. You begin to wonder how much longer you'll live and how exactly they're going to kill you.

You fantasize about running, but have no place to go as the nature of the abuser is to isolate his/her victim. Even if you think you know somewhere you can go you realize that reality means they will not be able to hide you forever unless they whisked you away somewhere - and even then, more danger. You fantasize about your attacker having some epiphany which will end the torture and realize it just isn't going to happen, which of course it never does.

Finally, you consider what would be worse - to continue living like this or going to prison or dying at the hands of justice? If you are either shady on the answer or think the last two options are far better, the thoughts become dark. You begin to think of ways to make the abuse stop via the only means you think is possible and know the only time you'll have the courage to do it is the only time your attacker is vulnerable - when they're asleep.

If you're lucky, an angel will stay your hand. If you're not, then you will be persecuted as being a bloodthirsty monster who sought revenge in a cowardly way. And whether your attacker lives or dies, and whether you live or die ... You're Screwed.

I'll pray for her deliverance, for I was lucky.

 

[Lisa]

When you're being throttled by someone you fell in love with or a family member who is a sibling or a parent or who swears they love you, especially if you have been raised with a subservient mindset such as the church can deliver or a controlling, abusive parent, the last thing on your mind at that moment is fighting back. The FIRST thing on your mind is minimizing the damage to yourself by either hiding, cow-towing, shielding yourself, begging, pleading, etcetera. It is the pattern. It's the only thing you know and every way feels like potential death.

You think about calling the authorities, going to the hospital, telling a friend, a friend's parent, a teacher, a neighbor ... but you know they've seen the bruises before, even asked about them, but looked the other way. They've even begun to avoid you and you become grateful so that you are no longer embarrassed about your appearance and no longer have to lie about your condition ... or your life.

Once it's over and you have wiped the blood away, donned the bandages and pancake makeup or put the pajamas on and everyone's in bed, your attacker asleep and quiet, finally vulnerable ... *then* your mind engages into some dark places no one wants to admit are there.

You begin to think that you will, at some unprovoked, unpredictable moment, die at the hands of this person. You begin to wonder how much longer you'll live and how exactly they're going to kill you.

You fantasize about running, but have no place to go as the nature of the abuser is to isolate his/her victim. Even if you think you know somewhere you can go you realize that reality means they will not be able to hide you forever unless they whisked you away somewhere - and even then, more danger. You fantasize about your attacker having some epiphany which will end the torture and realize it just isn't going to happen, which of course it never does.

Finally, you consider what would be worse - to continue living like this or going to prison or dying at the hands of justice? If you are either shady on the answer or think the last two options are far better, the thoughts become dark. You begin to think of ways to make the abuse stop via the only means you think is possible and know the only time you'll have the courage to do it is the only time your attacker is vulnerable - when they're asleep.

If you're lucky, an angel will stay your hand. If you're not, then you will be persecuted as being a bloodthirsty monster who sought revenge in a cowardly way. And whether your attacker lives or dies, and whether you live or die ... You're Screwed.

I'll pray for her deliverance, for I was lucky.

You amaze me.

I am at a loss of words after Georgia's response.

Anyone is capable of killing someone, at least I believe so. Given the right circumstances.

 

[Kacey]

When you're being throttled by someone you fell in love with or a family member who is a sibling or a parent or who swears they love you, especially if you have been raised with a subservient mindset such as the church can deliver or a controlling, abusive parent, the last thing on your mind at that moment is fighting back. The FIRST thing on your mind is minimizing the damage to yourself by either hiding, cow-towing, shielding yourself, begging, pleading, etcetera. It is the pattern. It's the only thing you know and every way feels like potential death.

You think about calling the authorities, going to the hospital, telling a friend, a friend's parent, a teacher, a neighbor ... but you know they've seen the bruises before, even asked about them, but looked the other way. They've even begun to avoid you and you become grateful so that you are no longer embarrassed about your appearance and no longer have to lie about your condition ... or your life.

Once it's over and you have wiped the blood away, donned the bandages and pancake makeup or put the pajamas on and everyone's in bed, your attacker asleep and quiet, finally vulnerable ... *then* your mind engages into some dark places no one wants to admit are there.

You begin to think that you will, at some unprovoked, unpredictable moment, die at the hands of this person. You begin to wonder how much longer you'll live and how exactly they're going to kill you.

You fantasize about running, but have no place to go as the nature of the abuser is to isolate his/her victim. Even if you think you know somewhere you can go you realize that reality means they will not be able to hide you forever unless they whisked you away somewhere - and even then, more danger. You fantasize about your attacker having some epiphany which will end the torture and realize it just isn't going to happen, which of course it never does.

Finally, you consider what would be worse - to continue living like this or going to prison or dying at the hands of justice? If you are either shady on the answer or think the last two options are far better, the thoughts become dark. You begin to think of ways to make the abuse stop via the only means you think is possible and know the only time you'll have the courage to do it is the only time your attacker is vulnerable - when they're asleep.

If you're lucky, an angel will stay your hand. If you're not, then you will be persecuted as being a bloodthirsty monster who sought revenge in a cowardly way. And whether your attacker lives or dies, and whether you live or die ... You're Screwed.

I'll pray for her deliverance, for I was lucky.

No one knows what they will do until the time comes to do it. Some people are able to escape such situations before it comes to that ultimate choice, as Georgia did asian: to Georgia for sharing her story, an act which requires a great deal of courage). Others are not. Still others claim to have been in such a situation - or have thought they were in a more serious situation than they were - and have made the choice the woman in the article made. The question for the legal system is if the woman was truly in such a situation - because that is the key question in this case.

The issue is, however, much bigger than this particular case, as heart-rending as it is. The question for society as a whole is how to prevent such situations from reaching anything close to this stage in the first place. Abusers, by their very nature, spend a great deal of time and energy isolating their victims from anyone who might help; as has been seen in other recent threads in this forum, many people pass by without assisting when they could, because they don't want to get involved.

The only type of situation worse than the one described above is when the abused is a child... and as a teacher, a mandatory reporter, I have had to take the difficult and painful step of reporting suspected abuse involving students in my class. Sometimes I was right; sometimes I was (thankfully) wrong - when the safety of children is concerned, I can deal with parents being outraged by my actions, as long as they don't take their outrage out on their children... the fear that keeps too many people from reporting suspected child abuse: that sufficient evidence won't be found, and the child(ren) will bear the brunt of the parent(s)' anger at the reporter's suspicions.

 

[terryl965]

When you're being throttled by someone you fell in love with or a family member who is a sibling or a parent or who swears they love you, especially if you have been raised with a subservient mindset such as the church can deliver or a controlling, abusive parent, the last thing on your mind at that moment is fighting back. The FIRST thing on your mind is minimizing the damage to yourself by either hiding, cow-towing, shielding yourself, begging, pleading, etcetera. It is the pattern. It's the only thing you know and every way feels like potential death.

You think about calling the authorities, going to the hospital, telling a friend, a friend's parent, a teacher, a neighbor ... but you know they've seen the bruises before, even asked about them, but looked the other way. They've even begun to avoid you and you become grateful so that you are no longer embarrassed about your appearance and no longer have to lie about your condition ... or your life.

Once it's over and you have wiped the blood away, donned the bandages and pancake makeup or put the pajamas on and everyone's in bed, your attacker asleep and quiet, finally vulnerable ... *then* your mind engages into some dark places no one wants to admit are there.

You begin to think that you will, at some unprovoked, unpredictable moment, die at the hands of this person. You begin to wonder how much longer you'll live and how exactly they're going to kill you.

You fantasize about running, but have no place to go as the nature of the abuser is to isolate his/her victim. Even if you think you know somewhere you can go you realize that reality means they will not be able to hide you forever unless they whisked you away somewhere - and even then, more danger. You fantasize about your attacker having some epiphany which will end the torture and realize it just isn't going to happen, which of course it never does.

Finally, you consider what would be worse - to continue living like this or going to prison or dying at the hands of justice? If you are either shady on the answer or think the last two options are far better, the thoughts become dark. You begin to think of ways to make the abuse stop via the only means you think is possible and know the only time you'll have the courage to do it is the only time your attacker is vulnerable - when they're asleep.

If you're lucky, an angel will stay your hand. If you're not, then you will be persecuted as being a bloodthirsty monster who sought revenge in a cowardly way. And whether your attacker lives or dies, and whether you live or die ... You're Screwed.

I'll pray for her deliverance, for I was lucky.

Georgia this is one great post, I would rep. you if I could.
Terry

 

[MJS]

It'll be interesting to see how this turns out. One would think that if they're being subjected to abuse, that they'd remove themselves from the situation. But, as Shesulsa pointed out, there are time when the love for the person is stronger than the decision to flee.

Premeditated? Thats when you sit and plan out what you're going to do. Could this be the case here? I dont know. Perhaps she was beaten shortly before and she took the gun and kill her husband, therefore 'snapping' as it was said.

Then again, on page 2,

Let’s say for the sake of argument she was a battered spouse. In her own words, she said she was sick of her husband’s constant criticism over the “way I walk, what I eat, everything. It was just building up to this point. I was just tired of it. I guess I just got to a point and snapped.” Let’s say for the sake of argument she did just “snap.” The snap argument would mitigate intent. She wasn’t in her “right” mind. But it doesn’t sound like snapping to me when she walked to that closet, got the shotgun, pointed it at her husband as he lay in bed and pulled the trigger.
Based on those facts, I believe she formed the intent to kill. She says the gun went off by accident. Guns don’t magically discharge bullets; their triggers have to be pulled. If she was just holding the gun as she claims, then why was she holding it with her finger on the trigger unless she intended to fire it?

this makes it seem more premeditated. And this...

According to reports, the Winklers argued the night before his death. Mary was upset over the way Matthew disciplined one of her daughters. She wanted him to listen to her so to get his attention Mary allegedly went to the bedroom closet where she knew her husband kept a 12-gauge shotgun he used for turkey hunting and took it out of its case. She says she does not remember firing the gun, but remembers that the noise didn’t sound as loud as she thought it would.

 

[Ray]

I think the title should be: Is Abuse a Legal Justification for Killing.

Murder is the unlawful taking of life.

 

[jks9199]

The battered wife defense is a very complex, and not very successful (as I recall) blend of self defense and temporary insanity. The broad argument is that the victim is powerless to act while the abuser is awake or aware of the attack; sometimes it's argued that the victim was unable to properly appreciate their actions during the time of the attack (moving into temporary insanity), and in other cases the thrust of the argument is simply that they have no opportunity to act until the abuser is powerless.

Personally -- domestic violence is just so complicated and so diverse of a problem that each case like this has to be judged independently, considering other attempts to deal with the abuse, the ability of the victim to leave (both emotional and functional), whether the homicide was really premeditated or whether it simply was an instant, virtually unconcious response, and more. But I'm very reluctant to ever sanction taking the life of a person while they are powerless and when an attack has stopped without careful investigation.

 

[Touch Of Death]

She needs to go to jail. Women are either responsible for their actions or they are not.
Sean

 

[Kacey]

She needs to go to jail. Women are either responsible for their actions or they are not.
Sean

Likewise, men are also responsible for their actions of they are not... nonetheless, men also use extenuating circumstances as a rationale when on trial for murder - and some of them get off too, because sometimes there really are extenuating circumstances.

There is no one "right" answer to questions such as the ones this case poses - that is why the law specifies jury trials, and allows the introduction of the circumstances surrounding murder (and other crimes) as part of the defense.

 

[LawDog]

There is no excuse for murder only a reason why. Society will judge if the reason given is valid or not.

 

[MA-Caver]

She needs to go to jail. Women are either responsible for their actions or they are not.
Sean

I'll agree with Kacey on this because men are JUST AS responsible for their actions as the women. Yet men can be more brutal and have been known to kill their mates far more often than women.

In my years with AA/NA I've met hundreds of women who've shared their horror stories of their abusive significant others. One woman (and I'm not breaking anonymity by telling her story... just not her name), told me of how she was a virtual prisoner for over 20 years with her abusive husband. He tricked her of course; "the nicest, sweetest most caring man in the world"... right up to the day she married him and moments after they crossed the threshold of their honeymoon suite, literally dropping her on the bed and then... raping her. When she protested, he hit her... the marriage was like that. A strict regimen of timely dinners, clean clothes and house and so forth. He openly admitted to having sex with various women and told her when he wasn't going to be home until after he's slept with this (or that) woman.
She escaped him, later was rescued by a neighbor and then became a raging alcoholic because it made her sleep easier at nights.
There are thousands of such stories and I'm sure many of you have heard one version or another to some greater or lesser horrific detail.

Question begs to be asked to why not simply leave? Sometimes it's not that easy, sometimes it is. Sometimes she's hunted down and brought back to a severe beating and the routine is enforced back again. Other times... she's murdered. Tell me the legal justification in that? The "***** ran away from me!"
One more woman that I known and loved (as a friend) she could NOT get into or would STAY IN ANY relationship... unless the bf/prospective husband started hitting her. This told her, in her sick mind that she was loved. And why not? It was Daddy's way of telling his daughter "I'm only whupping you because I love you." And he whupped her good... with his fists.

Sometimes a woman can't get away and sometimes she can. Sometimes a woman will just take it til she dies and sometimes (for her) it's a blessing. Sometimes she'll just kill the bastard and be done with it.

If there's evidence of abuse and evidence where if leaving, or going to the law and reporting it would bring dire repercussions (aka punishment), and/or evidence that eventually he'd kill her ... I'd say she had every damn right in the world to defend herself. If killing the beast while it sleeps is the safest way... so be it.

Sometimes it's necessary, sometimes it's not. Each case is different... but who are we to judge unless we've been there ourselves.

 

[jks9199]

In my years with AA/NA I've met hundreds of women who've shared their horror stories of their abusive significant others. One woman (and I'm not breaking anonymity by telling her story... just not her name), told me of how she was a virtual prisoner for over 20 years with her abusive husband. He tricked her of course; "the nicest, sweetest most caring man in the world"... right up to the day she married him and moments after they crossed the threshold of their honeymoon suite, literally dropping her on the bed and then... raping her. When she protested, he hit her... the marriage was like that. A strict regimen of timely dinners, clean clothes and house and so forth. He openly admitted to having sex with various women and told her when he wasn't going to be home until after he's slept with this (or that) woman.
She escaped him, later was rescued by a neighbor and then became a raging alcoholic because it made her sleep easier at nights.
There are thousands of such stories and I'm sure many of you have heard one version or another to some greater or lesser horrific detail.

Sadly, this is a pretty typical story. You didn't draw out the common circle of abuse incident/apology/honeymoon/new abuse incident... but I'm sure it was there. (I'm also sure there were signs prior to the marriage; things like trying to control her friends, lesser incidents, and so on. It's worthwile to learn the potential signs of an abusive relationship so that you can recognize when your loved ones are getting into a bad situation. And WOMEN CAN BE THE ABUSERS, too!)

Question begs to be asked to why not simply leave? Sometimes it's not that easy, sometimes it is. Sometimes she's hunted down and brought back to a severe beating and the routine is enforced back again. Other times... she's murdered. Tell me the legal justification in that? The "***** ran away from me!"
One more woman that I known and loved (as a friend) she could NOT get into or would STAY IN ANY relationship... unless the bf/prospective husband started hitting her. This told her, in her sick mind that she was loved. And why not? It was Daddy's way of telling his daughter "I'm only whupping you because I love you." And he whupped her good... with his fists.

Sometimes a woman can't get away and sometimes she can. Sometimes a woman will just take it til she dies and sometimes (for her) it's a blessing. Sometimes she'll just kill the bastard and be done with it.

If there's evidence of abuse and evidence where if leaving, or going to the law and reporting it would bring dire repercussions (aka punishment), and/or evidence that eventually he'd kill her ... I'd say she had every damn right in the world to defend herself. If killing the beast while it sleeps is the safest way... so be it.

Sometimes it's necessary, sometimes it's not. Each case is different... but who are we to judge unless we've been there ourselves.

The question of why victims stay in abusive relationships is, if anything, even more complex than the ideas underpinning the battered spouse defense that started this thread. Somehow, they get some sort of reward out of it, at least at first. Later, they may be trapped; no bank account of their own, no credit history, few friends, and little opportunity to make friends... That's why I said that there were both emotional and functional or practical impediments to leaving an abusive situation.

What I want to make clear is that there is no blanket solution; each situation is a unique and complex dynamic. When the victim spouse retaliates, especially if the retaliation becomes a homicide or maiming, it has to be properly and carefully investigated and assessed. In a small minority of cases, the person is either truly incompetent (in a legal sense) and therefore not guilty of murder, or were simply responding in the only way and time they could, and it really was a form of self defense. But, most of the time... it was just one more case of people beating on each other. It simply requires careful investigation to determine what the situation truly is.