Irresponsible Gracie Jiu-Jitsu ad?

[Hanzou]

Over on another forum a few posters felt this ad was a bit irresponsible. The vid shows a Gjj/Bjj practitioner using their style against multiple opponents in a self defense situation.

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Gotta click it quick before the vid cycles over.

Personally I found nothing wrong with the vid, but quite a few people disagree.

 

[ballen0351]

Only thing I disagree with is the "facts" they mention. Its advertising it does it job. Im not sure what people would be upset over

 

[Carol]

I don't have the ability to watch the video with sound at the moment. I don't know what was said or promised, but as far as the video part of the ad? I loved it! They portrayed a realistic scenario where a person could be vulnerable without getting too heavy on emotion, then showed how the school's training would directly benefit a person in the situation.

Why do some folks think the ad is irresponsible? Just curious.

 

[Mephisto]

Lol, I trained at that school for two years before moving for my job. They're a great school, a lot of the guys compete but when I was at that school there was an emphasis on street application and defense of bjj as opposed to other schools that are more sport centric.

Generally though I'm not a fan of martial arts advertising tactics especially those that use statistics and fear to attract students but it's quite common. You have to take advertising for what it is, It gets people interested often through snob appeal, everybody's doing it mentality, or fear.

I didn't see a multiple opponent situation in this video though. I saw a bystander the the attacker and the would be victim, the bystander just watched and only two were involved in the "fight". A lot of people get the misconception that BJJ is only about ground fighting, in many cases though it's about gaining a dominant position. If you're put on the ground you take the dominant there if you're standing you can still gain an advantageous position. An untrained person is often no match for an experienced grappler so multiple untrained opponents are still within the realm of possibility and it doesn't necessarily have to go to the ground for a BJJ practitioner to survive. Weve all seen professional fights that end quickly mma, BJJ comps, boxing, Muay thai, whatever. Sometimes it may be due to luck but other times one fighter just outclasses the other. This is how it would likely be on the street, with inexperienced thugs the experienced competitor can end it quite quickly, although it's never a guarantee.

The Gracie combatives stuff I've seen, at the school in the video and elsewhere is just as good and nearly the same as combatives from other rbsd systems and is on par with some of the FMA selfs defense stuff I've seen.

 

[RTKDCMB]

I don't know about irresponsible but I would like to know the source of those statistics.

 

[Hanzou]

I didn't see a multiple opponent situation in this video though. I saw a bystander the the attacker and the would be victim, the bystander just watched and only two were involved in the "fight".

Actually, the guy requesting for engine help was an accomplice. He threw a punch at the guy which is why the guy took him down.

As for the "uproar" over the video, people are having issue with Bjj vs multiple attackers, the 90% fights go to the ground statistic, and telling the 911 operator that they're no longer in danger.

I think the other problem is that many people didn't realize those techniques are actually in Bjj.

Personally, I thought it was a good video. :shrugs:

 

[Mephisto]

Oh, missed that. Watching from my phone at work, haha. Yeah don't know where that stat came from but its a common held belief in the BJJ community. It's been true in my experience but I've run into a lot of people on the forums that have had just the opposite experience, so at the least it's debatable. I think that generally a guy that is getting out punched in a fight will go for the clinch or back out, the clinch goes to the ground pretty quickly so I don't think the statistic is completely baseless.

Like you said a lot of guys don't realize what BJJ encompasses and how groups can differ. It's funny back in the day non grapplers would use "the deadly street" argument to deride Gracie JJJ, now the Gracie guys use the same argument to deride some of the more sport focused BJJ players. A big part of my experience with these guys was punch and kick defense from the ground. Hiw not to get punched while mounted or while holding a guy in guard how not to get soccer kicked ect. I see BJJ practical from a worst case scenario standpoint. You may not want to be on your back but it could certsinly happen, if you get comfortable there you can defend and even win the fight. Yes the ground can be bad with multiple opponents but if you unexpectedly find yourself there with mult attackers you'll have the ability to gain a dominant position and escape.

 

[Hanzou]

Yep, we don't need to pull guard, we actually know how to throw people.

Here's another vid, but its more tongue in cheek;

 

[K-man]

I don't have an issue with the first ad. Advertising is advertising. The second raises more questions. I doubt it would be allowed here.

 

[Tez3]

Yep, we don't need to pull guard, we actually know how to throw people.

Here's another vid, but its more tongue in cheek;

This is just so wrong in an ad and probably 'real life' but really, really funny!

 

[Hanzou]

I don't have an issue with the first ad. Advertising is advertising. The second raises more questions. I doubt it would be allowed here.

Why? Because of the choke?

I think to many Bjj practitioners, a choke is the most gentle and humane way to end a violent physical confrontation.

 

[Danny T]

Over on another forum a few posters felt this ad was a bit irresponsible. The vid shows a Gjj/Bjj practitioner using their style against multiple opponents in a self defense situation.

HOME - SHAPE CHANGESHAPE CHANGE CREATIVE MEDIA THAT MATTERS. We craft meaningful stories that move people 8230 using video the web and the next generation of grassroots marketing.

Gotta click it quick before the vid cycles over.

Personally I found nothing wrong with the vid, but quite a few people disagree.

I believe this is Allen Hopkins (Pedro Sauer) or one of his group (Team Hopkins). Have done some training with them good group, good attitudes.

 

[K-man]

Why? Because of the choke?

I think to many Bjj practitioners, a choke is the most gentle and humane way to end a violent physical confrontation.

Personally, I have no issues with the choke but here a choke on the street is virtually regarded as attempted murder. RNCs are right out so I imagine the collar choke wouldn't be far behind so to advertise it that something you are teaching may not go down well with those who don't understand martial arts.

If I'm on the ground, RNC is my preferred finisher.

 

[Mephisto]

Personally, I have no issues with the choke but here a choke on the street is virtually regarded as attempted murder. RNCs are right out so I imagine the collar choke wouldn't be far behind so to advertise it that something you are teaching may not go down well with those who don't understand martial arts.

If I'm on the ground, RNC is my preferred finisher.

Good point, it should be known that applying a choke in the street might be construed as attempted murder in a court case. That being said I think it's no secret BJJ guys train chokes, anyone who has any knowledge of the art knows they train choking people out so I don't really see a need to keep it a secret. The good thing is that a choke can be controlled, a punch perhaps less so, you can KO a guy and he can fall and hit his head and die. Of course, if you choke someone with a medical condition they may react differently than the athletes you train with regularly and it could easily go bad. The current Michael brown case is such an example, a choke was applied to an overweight asthmatic who was placed on his stomach, and he died. A normal healthy guy may not have suffered the same fate.

 

[ballen0351]

Good point, it should be known that applying a choke in the street might be construed as attempted murder in a court case. That being said I think it's no secret BJJ guys train chokes, anyone who has any knowledge of the art knows they train choking people out so I don't really see a need to keep it a secret. The good thing is that a choke can be controlled, a punch perhaps less so, you can KO a guy and he can fall and hit his head and die. Of course, if you choke someone with a medical condition they may react differently than the athletes you train with regularly and it could easily go bad. The current Michael brown case is such an example, a choke was applied to an overweight asthmatic who was placed on his stomach, and he died. A normal healthy guy may not have suffered the same fate.

Eric Garner not Brown. Brown was shot. And Garner died from a heart attack in an ambulance 15 to 20 min after the "Choke" was let go. It also wasnt really a choke but thats what the media is calling it

 

[geezer]

This is just so wrong in an ad and probably 'real life' but really, really funny!

Very funny. People just don't have a sense of humor these days. If I were directing the add I'd have her lifting the guy's wallet too.

An ad is just supposed to grab your attention and push your product. Anybody who takes these or any other ads at face value is living in a dream!

 

[Mephisto]

Eric Garner not Brown Brown was shot. And Garner died from a heart attack in an ambulance 15 to 20 min after the "Choke" was let go. It also wasnt really a choke but thats what the media is calling it

True I had the wrong name, I hope "Brown Brown" was a typo and not a racial slight, that would be very disrespectful and show a serious lack of character. This would be the first I've heard of the heart attack in the ambulance, the issue has been discussed in depth on other martial arts sites but I havent visited them lately, perhaps its a new development.

I don't really want to bring politics into this, my intention was only to point out that choking out the wrong person could have more impact than you intend.

 

[drop bear]

Only thing I disagree with is the "facts" they mention. Its advertising it does it job. Im not sure what people would be upset over

you are not suggesting they would need some sort of proof are you?

 

[drop bear]

Actually, the guy requesting for engine help was an accomplice. He threw a punch at the guy which is why the guy took him down.

As for the "uproar" over the video, people are having issue with Bjj vs multiple attackers, the 90% fights go to the ground statistic, and telling the 911 operator that they're no longer in danger.

I think the other problem is that many people didn't realize those techniques are actually in Bjj.

Personally, I thought it was a good video. :shrugs:

the 90% thing is from police statistics somewhere. (i will see if i can find it)

the issue being if you are trying to arrest someone in a fight you generally take them to the ground. So the statistics may not be applicable.

 

[drop bear]

Good point, it should be known that applying a choke in the street might be construed as attempted murder in a court case. That being said I think it's no secret BJJ guys train chokes, anyone who has any knowledge of the art knows they train choking people out so I don't really see a need to keep it a secret. The good thing is that a choke can be controlled, a punch perhaps less so, you can KO a guy and he can fall and hit his head and die. Of course, if you choke someone with a medical condition they may react differently than the athletes you train with regularly and it could easily go bad. The current Michael brown case is such an example, a choke was applied to an overweight asthmatic who was placed on his stomach, and he died. A normal healthy guy may not have suffered the same fate.

bear in mind judges and lawyers decide that. Not martial artists. I have suffered a few wtf moments in court.