Investigating Katana Sword Maker's Mark

[Jokrg]

Hi, All. I recently came across a katana and wanted to know if anyone could translate the mark on the blade and give any insight as to who the maker might be.

I am pretty sure it's not an expensive sword, but it has a full tang with a forged, tapered with 2 pegs, ending in a rat-tail.

I am not questioning the value of the katana, only researching it, as I may restore it for display and would like to know.

I have images, but cannot seem to locate the mechanism that will allow me to simply upload the images in the place markers, above.

 

[Sukerkin]

In order to post images in-thread, they have to be uploaded to the Net first. You can either use the Album you have access to as a member of MT or another image hosting service such as Picasa.

 

[Jokrg]

Here is the blade marking:

And here is the tang:

 

[Chris Parker]

Hi,

I'm only getting the first and third pictures here (don't know if anyone else is getting the other two), but it looks like you are very correct in thinking this is not an expensive sword...

The stamp appears to be just that, a stamp, probably denoting a military use in WWII. From the little picture detail I can see here, the hamon appears to be "painted on", and I can see no real defined grain in the blade at all. The nakago is very long and thin, and appears to have been altered near the top, about an inch or less down (about where the polish ends). At that point, the sides come in rather irregularly.

This type of long, thin nakago was really only found on yari (spears), but I have seen it on cheap immitation swords as well, and that would also explain the twin mekugiana (typically a sword would have only one, unless it was remounted at some point and required a second as the original hole was in a bad position for the new tuska). But as I can see two holes in the tsuka below (if I am right?), I am doubting that.

So to sum up, it was most likely a cheap mass-produced unit for the military of WWII, but is not what would be described as a "sword" by an appraiser. But this type of weapon are fairly common, with many being taken as souveniers, and the knowledge of these weapons took longer to get across. And the stamp is probably more to do with where it was made, not who made it, or possibly which division it was used in. I couldn't find any match to the characters in my list of common seals (military and otherwise), but the top one is quite possibly "Chun"/"Tsubaki", meaning "Camellia", a type of flower which provides an oil used in Japan (and also used in a compound refering to unexpected accidents...).

 

[Ken Morgan]

Hi,

I'm only getting the first and third pictures here (don't know if anyone else is getting the other two), but it looks like you are very correct in thinking this is not an expensive sword...

The stamp appears to be just that, a stamp, probably denoting a military use in WWII. From the little picture detail I can see here, the hamon appears to be "painted on", and I can see no real defined grain in the blade at all. The nakago is very long and thin, and appears to have been altered near the top, about an inch or less down (about where the polish ends). At that point, the sides come in rather irregularly.

This type of long, thin nakago was really only found on yari (spears), but I have seen it on cheap immitation swords as well, and that would also explain the twin mekugiana (typically a sword would have only one, unless it was remounted at some point and required a second as the original hole was in a bad position for the new tuska). But as I can see two holes in the tsuka below (if I am right?), I am doubting that.

So to sum up, it was most likely a cheap mass-produced unit for the military of WWII, but is not what would be described as a "sword" by an appraiser. But this type of weapon are fairly common, with many being taken as souveniers, and the knowledge of these weapons took longer to get across. And the stamp is probably more to do with where it was made, not who made it, or possibly which division it was used in. I couldn't find any match to the characters in my list of common seals (military and otherwise), but the top one is quite possibly "Chun"/"Tsubaki", meaning "Camellia", a type of flower which provides an oil used in Japan (and also used in a compound refering to unexpected accidents...).

agreed

 

[Sukerkin]

My guess is that what we are looking at here is a modern Chinese copy of a katana.

It's hard to tell from pictures on the Net but the blade appears to be mono-steel, with a fake hamon and that roughly shaped tang, tapering to a rat-tail, looks like it's been 'welded' on after the fact (possibly an illusion brought on by the incomplete polish).

Markings on the blades of katana are quite rare too, which adds to the overall impression that it's an imitation.

If you could sort out the 'missing' pictures it may well be there is more imformation to be gleaned from them.

 

[Chris Parker]

Yeah, the Chinese copy idea was my other thought. However, I have seen a number of the inferior blades made for WWII which have stamps on the blade, rather than signatures on the nakago. A great book on these, by the way (and one I happen to have in front of me at the moment...) is "Japanese Military And Civil Swords And Dirks" by Richard Fuller and Ron Gregory. Although not exhaustive, it has a fair amount of common seals and stamps used, as well as the signatures which can very occasionally be found.

 

[Sukerkin]

Cheers for that resource recommendation, Chris.

 

[Brian R. VanCise]

Yes Chris great overview and you are correct in that is a good book.

 

[Jokrg]

Gratitude to all of you. I took those pics with the cell phone, but will attempt to get better resolution with my camera, today. Your insight is invaluable.

 

[pgsmith]

I have to agree with Sukerkin here that it's a modern Chinese copy. I've never come across any Japanese made sword with a rat tail tang. The tang on this sword negates the way that a Japanese sword is made to be put together, and so indicates a mass produced copy. The stamp on the blade with kanji in it indicates that it was made in China.
Personal opinion ... it's only worth a couple of bucks if that much. Certainly not worth attempting to "restore" it. For the effort and expense it would take to make it presentable for display, you can buy an inexpensive new Chinese made blade that would look better.

 

[Jokrg]

I guess the only thing I need to do now is find out what the heck it says. lol. I have quizzed a Chinese friend of mine, who says it has to be older Chinese (traditional) because she can only make out a character that possibly denotes "dragon".

Since there is no real point in restoring it (restore to what,lol) , I will probably keep it as a pet project and seek out a real one when I have the money for a decent one.

Yeah, I tend to like the underdog and the mutt for a good project. So sue me. If it has already had the actual taste of blood, I will probably be typing to you like so: " hanks, uys! he Sword has seve ed my le di i , u i su i ed."

lol
(That's the left index finger in the "off" position.)

 

[Xue Sheng]

If it is traditional Chinese and you can get me a better picture of it I can get it translated, my wife can read traditional Chinese.

 

[Sukerkin]

Glad to have been of help, Jokrg.

In the field of swords and sword collecting sometimes the only way to learn is to spend money but the advice of others who have already 'spent money' can be invaluable .

 

[jks9199]

Y'know... It's not a bad piece to PRACTICE some restoration on. I can see some rust, etc. and if it's not worth much, who cares if something you do damages it? I do some woodworking -- and will sometimes try a technique or project in cheap material or scrap rather than destroy good wood...

 

[Bruno@MT]

If you feel the need to restore or sharpen blades, then having a dud for practise is essential. I have a couple of razors lying around with some defect or other that makes them worthless as razor, and I use them just for that. Whenever I am going to try something new, I try it on one of those first, and not on the expensive razor I am actually working on.

A Japanese friend of mine is an expert at sharpening and polishing, and he told me that more authentic swords have been destroyed by mediocre sharpening and polishing skills, than by actual use in battle or tameshigiri in the last several centuries.

 

[Jokrg]

Hi, again. It is I, and I have FINALLY gotten around to taking real photos for the detail of the blade stamp. I appreciate all the assistance, here, and await any translation possible.

Do me a favor: If it says, "MADE IN CHINA"... don't tell anyone. lol....

 

[Jokrg]

Just in case you missed it, I posted clearer pics of the blade stamp. Thanks, in advance.

 

[Sukerkin]

With the clearer pictures, altho I am by no means an expert on metal working, that 'stamp' is looking more and more like it was hand-cut after the blade was made.

 

[Chris Parker]

Hi Jokrg,

The style of script here is a form of seal script, and it is a rare thing to find someone who can read it. However, I have been going through my Kanji dictionaries to find the closest match I can... and I'm not sure you are going to like the results.

The top character appears to possibly be "Ko", meaning "construct", which may lead to your feared "Made (constructed) in China" stamp. But the second character has me stumped. I could find no match to either the first radical, or left character (if it is two characters), nor anything close to what I am seeing here. I am afraid that I must agree with Sukerin here, this does appear to be not entirely authentic in any way. The edges of the stamp are crooked, and that shouldn't be the case, as well as the calligraphy not being particularly well-done.

If we are to take this as a cheap Chinese faux-katana, then I would advise against using it even to practice restoration techniques. Different metals and construction techniques require different restoration methods; the way a Japanese sword is polished is as much to do with the way it is made as anything else. To use the same or similar techniques with a non-Japanese blade will simply not give the same results, and to get the results you may be after, you will need to use techniques that would damage a real sword. Otherwise it's like practicing badminton all year to prepare for a tennis tournament.