injured student

[fullkontact]

I got a call tonight that a student had been injured during an adult class taught by one of the other instructors in my school. I met them at the emergency room. He had blown out his knee during sparring. Here's what really sucks, this student has only been in our school for 2 weeks, he has been completely amped about joining and seemed instantly addicted to martial arts. He was soooo stoked about sparring for the first time tonight. Well he musta zigged when he shouldv'e zagged. He stepped back and pow. After x-rays it was determined that he totally ripped out the ligament that holds the knee cap in place. Apparently a HUGE ligament. Surgeury(sp?) tomorrow morning, then up to 1 full year to be able to walk normal again.
He has had no prior knee problems. And wasn't doing anything that we all don't do countless times every year. He was packing a few extra pounds, but nothing to point towards an injury from training. He's only 30 years old. Now the next year of his life will be totally altered. And why? Because he liked my classes and tried hard in class. It makes me sick. What do you tell em? Sorry your whole knee got blown out, but hey, good job in class. Sorry to vent, I just got home from the hospital.

 

[Kenpobldr]

I got a call tonight that a student had been injured during an adult class taught by one of the other instructors in my school. I met them at the emergency room. He had blown out his knee during sparring. Here's what really sucks, this student has only been in our school for 2 weeks, he has been completely amped about joining and seemed instantly addicted to martial arts. He was soooo stoked about sparring for the first time tonight. Well he musta zigged when he shouldv'e zagged. He stepped back and pow. After x-rays it was determined that he totally ripped out the ligament that holds the knee cap in place. Apparently a HUGE ligament. Surgeury(sp?) tomorrow morning, then up to 1 full year to be able to walk normal again.
He has had no prior knee problems. And wasn't doing anything that we all don't do countless times every year. He was packing a few extra pounds, but nothing to point towards an injury from training. He's only 30 years old. Now the next year of his life will be totally altered. And why? Because he liked my classes and tried hard in class. It makes me sick. What do you tell em? Sorry your whole knee got blown out, but hey, good job in class. Sorry to vent, I just got home from the hospital.

Its to early to tell exactly what happened since you were not there. Did he get kicked there or did it just pop on its own? Interview other students and the instructor to see what happened and document all of it.

We all would feel bad if someone got injured during training but when someone signs on with martial arts training there are of coarse risks involved. I have broken/bruised ribs, broken my nose and toes and the older I get the harder it seems to recover but I understand the risks involved. The knees however are a scary thing to loose. Do you have a liability release form signed?

 

[Drac]

Did he get kicked there or did it just pop on its own? Interview other students and the instructor to see what happened and document all of it.

I was going to suggest the same thing..I've seen a similar injury to a seasoned MA that was just walking across the mat

I have broken/bruised ribs, broken my nose and toes and the older I get the harder it seems to recover

Amen to that..I do an intense training seminar for 3 days and it takes 2 to recover..Keep us posted...

 

[fullkontact]

that's it though, he wasn't doing some jump, spinning, upside down, flying leg knarl. He was light contact sparring, and he stepped back, put weight on his right leg so he could front kick with it.
And yeah I got all the liability waiver stuff and he has got good insurance.

 

[Martial Tucker]

that's it though, he wasn't doing some jump, spinning, upside down, flying leg knarl. He was light contact sparring, and he stepped back, put weight on his right leg so he could front kick with it.
And yeah I got all the liability waiver stuff and he has got good insurance.

The first thing I would question is having a student doing any type of sparring involving contact after just 2 weeks, but from what you are saying, his injury could have just as easily occured at home while running the vacuum cleaner.
Sounds like an unfortunate "fluke" accident to me.

 

[rmclain]

A student shouldn't be sparring after two weeks. Too many chances for injury and accident. You may want to change this policy and wait until they have at least a month of training, plus gone through some sort of pre-arranged sparring program for their rank. This could be set up as sparring combination #1, #2, etc. with both an offesive side and defensive side that they have to become proficient in your eyes before free sparring is introduced. This way they are comfortable and less likely to injure themselves in sparring. We've used this method in my martial arts system since 1968 and we have a virtually non-existent injury rate - and the majority of the students are adults.

I have a similar story to yours involving a black belt. I was sparring with a 2nd dan about 2 years ago. He's a heavy-set fellow (stocky), 40's, and a good sparrer. We were going along fine when he stepped back and "bobbled" a bit and everyone heard a loud "pop."- like he temporarily lost his balance. He immediately grabbed my uniform and I braced to counter a takedown. But, what was happening is he was falling and grabbing me for support. Turns out he snapped his achillies tendon where it connects to the calf muscle. He underwent surgery and was out of training for about 9 months and light training for 3 months after that.

So, things can happen beyond your control. But, there are ways to minimize injuries among the students.

R. McLain

 

[Henderson]

While it is unfortunate that a student this new would get injured, there are many things to be learned just by being at class. Once he is mobile, I wouldn't hesitate to suggest he still come to class to observe. It will keep him connected and keep him thinking. Also...there is nothing keeping him from training upper body technique 'til he's back on his feet.

Just my $.02

 

[mrhnau]

While it is unfortunate that a student this new would get injured, there are many things to be learned just by being at class. Once he is mobile, I wouldn't hesitate to suggest he still come to class to observe. It will keep him connected and keep him thinking. Also...there is nothing keeping him from training upper body technique 'til he's back on his feet.

Just my $.02

I think thats a great idea. If he is still passionate about things, how about letting him borrow some reading material you might find insightful? If he is off his feet, upper body techniques might be a tad difficult until at least he is standing, but he could always read or watch something might be a good incentive to keep his appetite whet and let him know you still want him to do well...

 

[Makalakumu]

Injuries are scary, but in any sport, they happen. I've injured myself and I've seen others get injured in class...thankfully not at my dojang yet. The guilt that one feels is part of the reflection process that helps keep these things from occuring again.

 

[kenpojujitsu]

This is the instructors fault.
This student was sparring too soon.
If he's smart, he'd get a lawyer and file a negligence suit.
Even if he signed a liability waiver, you are not protected against such negilgence.

 

[BrandiJo]

sparring at two weeks isnt suprising to me, I think i was sparrign my first week of classes but it was my best friends dad teaching at the time so it was very controled. It sounds like just an accisnt no ones at fault and it just happens

 

[Lisa]

I got a call tonight that a student had been injured during an adult class taught by one of the other instructors in my school. I met them at the emergency room. He had blown out his knee during sparring. Here's what really sucks, this student has only been in our school for 2 weeks, he has been completely amped about joining and seemed instantly addicted to martial arts. He was soooo stoked about sparring for the first time tonight. Well he musta zigged when he shouldv'e zagged. He stepped back and pow. After x-rays it was determined that he totally ripped out the ligament that holds the knee cap in place. Apparently a HUGE ligament. Surgeury(sp?) tomorrow morning, then up to 1 full year to be able to walk normal again.
He has had no prior knee problems. And wasn't doing anything that we all don't do countless times every year. He was packing a few extra pounds, but nothing to point towards an injury from training. He's only 30 years old. Now the next year of his life will be totally altered. And why? Because he liked my classes and tried hard in class. It makes me sick. What do you tell em? Sorry your whole knee got blown out, but hey, good job in class. Sorry to vent, I just got home from the hospital.

Sounds to me like you are an instructor with a great deal of heart and compassion for your students. You are an instructor that cares. The injury, going by what you wrote, is just an accident that happened. One could argue that he was sparring too soon but I am not sure how sparring later on could have prevented what sounds like a simple step in the wrong direction. These things happen to newbies and to seasoned students. Knees are complicated machines that bear a huge amount of stress. I know I have simply turned causing my knee to twist the wrong way and cause pain. I think we have all done that.

I like Henderson's suggestion about inviting him to come in and watch and to work his upper body and try and keep him interested in the classes. Not only that it will probaby do him a world of good during recovery and help stop the injury blues from settling in. It could also motivate him to recover quicker, he will have a goal to word towards.

I hope the best for you and your student. When it comes to what to say, sometimes just showing interest in their recovery and keeping in touch is the best and only thing you can do.

 

[Kacey]

I suspect that this was an unfortunate accident. A friend of mine was sparring at a tournament and lost his balance; stood back up, stepped on the leg he tripped on, and fell over again. He also had ripped the major ligament to his knee - required surgery to repair it, physical therapy, etc.

Students in my class spar within the first 2 weeks as well - very controlled, with black belt partners. Injuries happen, and, from the sound of your actions, you are a concerned, aware instructor who had a student who experienced bad luck. Early sparring should be carefully controlled, true - but I don't see a problem with it, and, in over 15 years as an instructor, the worst injury I have seen is the occasional bruise, usually from banging shins.

Good luck to you, and a speedy and uncomplicated recovery to your student.

 

[Gemini]

I wasn't there so I'm not going to address who's fault, if anyone's, it was. It's a tragedy that such things happen, but they do happen. Sometimes they are due to negligence, sometimes not. What I hope would come of this is, regardless of how long someone's been practicing that you would watch their technique and not allow them to spar until you're confident they know how to pivot and throw at least basic kicks correctly. You can't control everything, but you can control some things. It does seem a tall order for someone there only 2 weeks, but anything's possible. Again I wasn't there.

 

[fullkontact]

Thanks all, even to the ones criticising. Although in this situation I don't see the difference in what he did during sparring and simply throwing kicks at a pad. But we will definitely revisit some of our training practices at our next staff meeting. I would definitely like to do something to keep his interest up, do you all think it's a good idea to let a student come back after an injury like that? I don't want to invite another injury on him. Knees seem to never return to 100%

 

[still learning]

Hello, No one wants to get injury....accidents happen...!

I broke my wrist at a weekend martial seminar and need surgery and now I have a titaumin bar with eight screws( the wrist bone was crush).

This was an accident...fell off the back of my truck..trying to get down and slip. (*extend my arm to brake the fall)

One never knows when you will get hurt.....in martial art classes...things will happen....Aloha

 

[Adept]

Theres nothing 'wrong' with letting a student spar in his second week of training, and certainly nothing negligent about it, provided proper safety measures are in place. If a more experienced student can't spar with a newbiw without injuring them, then there are problems with the training regime. And if the newbie can't spar without a modicum of control, and by this I don't mean the level of control a black belt might demonstrate, but enough control to keep their temper, match their intensity level to their opponent, and follow the rules, then the newbie needs to be talked to.

In any case, a student should be able to spar on their first night (provided all the relevant paper-work is filled out).

 

[bcbernam777]

I feel for you I really do, I would point a few things out:

1) you need to make sure you have proper systems in place for the documenting of any injuries etc as well as for the rendering of first aid.

2) i know you probably dont need to hear this right now, but 2 weeks is too early, it would be more prudent to lay down some basics, get to know the students limitations before going down the sparring road as the student reallly needs to develop a basic conditioning before partaking in this sort of activity.

3) have a damn good Lawyer on speed dial, because if you did have a release form, it is not worth the paper its printed on.

4) totally redesign the way you approach class, have a system in place for everything i.e have as many contingincies in place that you can think off, also keep an incident book and record even the most irreleveant things in it, even if there is chewing gum on the floor put it into your incident book as this will become the central componant of your contigincy strategy's.

5) the reason why it is important to have systems in place is because in a civil court the magistrate wants to know that in the balance of probablity's everything that could have been done to prevent injury was done, and that there was minimal liablilty or negligence on the side of the operator.

6) Even if this does end up costing you money or an enthusiastic student (dont we all wish there where more like this one) dont see it as the end, it is the beginning of a new way of approaching your class structure, and your studio as a whole. It may cost you but the more valuble the lesson, the greater the chance of remembering it and truelly learning from it.

 

[Gemini]

I don't want to invite another injury on him. Knees seem to never return to 100%

Actually, that isn't always the case. I've seen people come back that I thought were all done. It depends on the injury, the guidence of the physician, and the patient's determination. Even if they do come back less capable than they were before, it is what it is, and as long as they come back we've made the most of what we had to work with. That's all anyone could ask.

You appear to be a caring individual that shares his concerns and learns from his past experiences. That's how we grow.

 

[kenpojujitsu]

You appear to be a caring individual that shares his concerns and learns from his past experiences. That's how we grow.

Actually, he does not seem to care or be learning.
Yes, injuries happen - even to experienced people. But based on responses, he does not seem to have learned the he needs to properly train people before they spar.
This is a dangerous teacher and I am sure more of his students will be needlessly injured.
It's this kind of idiot that helps give martial arts schools in general bad reputations and causes people to push for regulation of martial arts training. This school needs to have thier credentials seriously reviewed and maybe a more experienced/qualified teacher put in there.