If you "fight how you train", what about pulling your punches?

[cfr]

I was watching some clips the other day of a particular MA. Really impressive hand strikes and I was thinking that it looked really cool. Guy1 was working his hand techs on Guy2. But it suddenly donned on me, Guy1 is pulling his punches. Now I understand he needs to or Guy2 will be heading to the hospital. However, we all read here that people claim to "fight how you train". That being the case, if you spend much of your training time pulling your punches, wouldn't logic say that you would do the same in a real fight? That if it came right down to it you would do the same thing you had done in all that training?

You can all rest assured, this isn't a trick question that many of you are so paranoid about. I ask questions like this often and have yet to slander anyones answers (of course an answer may lead to another question). I just want your real, truthful opinion.

Thanks.

 

[Kacey]

The key is focus. If I can put a full-speed, full power technique wherever I want it - regardless of what is between me and my focus point, and how it is moving - then I can aim 1" out, surface touch, 1" in... depending on what I want to hit, and how much I like my training partner. After that, it doesn't matter - I adjust my focus according to how much I want to hit/hurt my target.

 

[still learning]

Hello, Most of us who train like in Kempo really do not know the true effects of our strikes and kicks. The attacks/defense looks good in training.

Actully? We do not really hit hard or our hardest...so the impacts are unknown.

Good point on "pulling punches". Hopefully we can turn on the switch to actully hitting.

It is true the "way we train is the way we will fight"...? ......Aloha

Avoid speeding trains............train right.....train hard....class will get smaller when you stop pulling punches...........Aloha

 

[searcher]

That is one the reason I tell people to work on a heavy bag. Take it to town on the bag. I also try to get my students to work with somebody who is much larger. This way they have to pull it less. Another way is to wear an ovr-sized glove. When I box and kickbox I wear a 20 oz. glove. It is like putting a pillow on your hand. The heavy glove mixed with my sparring partners wearing chest protectors and I can go pretty hard without risking as much injury to them. Keep in mind that even with all the adde gear you still can't go for a knockout in training. If you do that you will not have anybody to train with.

There are countless ways to work your techniques at more of a "full" speed without injury to either you or your training partners.

 

[Drac]

That is one the reason I tell people to work on a heavy bag. Take it to town on the bag

The heavy bag is an excellent and unforgiving teacher...Good post..

 

[Brian R. VanCise]

Alot of Bag work along with serious Focus Mitt training and you will not be pulling your punches.

 

[dubljay]

Alot of Bag work along with serious Focus Mitt training and you will not be pulling your punches.

I love focus mitt training. One thing I learned under Mr. Liles is to have a person hold a focus mitt against their body (usually their abs or chest if they can handle it) and hit the focus mitt at full power. Even though the person holding the mitt is expecting the blow you can see how the force of a full contact punch affects a person's stance, breathing and focus. (Note we only did this for hand strikes... I don’t really recommend it for knees or kicks; also we used the stiff leather focus mitts, not the softer foam ones.)

Hitting a heavy bag is good practice for hitting a solid target. But it's entirely different to hit someone (albeit through a focus mitt) at full power. To see how the body absorbs the blow. Because the person is holding the mitt against their body the transfer of energy is close to realistic. (As opposed to striking a focus mitt held out on a hand)

It was definitely an eye opener for me to train in this way. But if anyone goes to try it be absolutely sure of your partner's ability to hit the target and not you. Missing is very very very bad.


The flip side of practicing like this is you (as the person holding the mitt) learn how to deal with being hit full power (in terms of the amount of energy being delivered not necessarily the damage done by the strike). The importance of proper breath control becomes apparent in short order.


Just my own experiences.

 

[Brian R. VanCise]

I love focus mitt training. One thing I learned under Mr. Liles is to have a person hold a focus mitt against their body (usually their abs or chest if they can handle it) and hit the focus mitt at full power. Even though the person holding the mitt is expecting the blow you can see how the force of a full contact punch affects a person's stance, breathing and focus. (Note we only did this for hand strikes... I don’t really recommend it for knees or kicks; also we used the stiff leather focus mitts, not the softer foam ones.)

Hitting a heavy bag is good practice for hitting a solid target. But it's entirely different to hit someone (albeit through a focus mitt) at full power. To see how the body absorbs the blow. Because the person is holding the mitt against their body the transfer of energy is close to realistic. (As opposed to striking a focus mitt held out on a hand)

Yes, that works great. You can also get some rib pads/protectors, muay thai belly pads, etc. and do the same.

 

[dubljay]

Yes, that works great. You can also get some rib pads/protectors, muay thai belly pads, etc. and do the same.

Good point. I've never really trained anywhere that had those on hand. One nice part about only a focus mitt is that it offers a small target, you have to be accurate or your buddy is gonna have a bad day. Though this could be dupilicated by adding targets on to rib protectors (i.e. painting them on).

 

[Brian R. VanCise]

Good point. I've never really trained anywhere that had those on hand. One nice part about only a focus mitt is that it offers a small target, you have to be accurate or your buddy is gonna have a bad day. Though this could be dupilicated by adding targets on to rib protectors (i.e. painting them on).

The nice thing about the using the body protectors is that the person holding the focus mitts can still be striking, grabbing, etc when you attack the body. This makes for a great and very realistic training experience.

 

[zDom]

The key is focus. If I can put a full-speed, full power technique wherever I want it - regardless of what is between me and my focus point, and how it is moving - then I can aim 1" out, surface touch, 1" in... depending on what I want to hit, and how much I like my training partner. After that, it doesn't matter - I adjust my focus according to how much I want to hit/hurt my target.

Same method here: all about the focus.

Accuracy doesn't have to be limited to just two dimensions (X and Y); it can also include the Z dimension. Many, many drills to train this.

I also train heavy bag (I'm a firm believer in heavy bag training) as well as body shields, focus pads, board breaking.

Does it work? YES --- both in self-defense (one punch knockout) and sparring situations. I am proud of my ability to throw full power, full speed techniques with only feather touch for those who prefer light contact, as well as to step up the contact for those who don't mind it -- proud because it took a lot of time and effort to be able to achieve that level of "control."

 

[Drac]

Yes, that works great. You can also get some rib pads/protectors, muay thai belly pads, etc. and do the same.

Brian speaks the truth..Those are excellent training tools...

 

[SFC JeffJ]

Just tonight I had a great example of whay happens when punches aren't pulled. Was doing passing block drills with my wife at full power and speed. A student called my name about something and I made the mistake of turning my head to face him. Next thing I knew I was on the floor with a huge headache. A good cross right to my jaw from my wife, who is a little thing, had my 240 pound butt on the ground.

Jeff

 

[Paul B]

In our class we don't pull punches from day one. At a slower speed,yes,..but not executed inaccurately.

Later on we get to deal with the challenge of someone actively trying to take your head off,but by then we have built up the necessary skillset in order to deal with it. If you train in the slo-mo or step-n-freeze mode forever you're in for a rude awakening.


If the punch is pulled or inaccurate then why do I have to move?

 

[MJS]

I was watching some clips the other day of a particular MA. Really impressive hand strikes and I was thinking that it looked really cool. Guy1 was working his hand techs on Guy2. But it suddenly donned on me, Guy1 is pulling his punches. Now I understand he needs to or Guy2 will be heading to the hospital. However, we all read here that people claim to "fight how you train". That being the case, if you spend much of your training time pulling your punches, wouldn't logic say that you would do the same in a real fight? That if it came right down to it you would do the same thing you had done in all that training?

You can all rest assured, this isn't a trick question that many of you are so paranoid about. I ask questions like this often and have yet to slander anyones answers (of course an answer may lead to another question). I just want your real, truthful opinion.

Thanks.

Bag work, focus pad training as well as gearing up and doing some contact fighting will help in this area. I'd imagine there are some schools that don't focus on these areas, therefore, giving that false feeling for the pulling of strikes. Much like Paul B stated, I do the same thing. I run through my techniques, applying contact, obviously controlled. The same process can be done with drills. Starting off slow, making little to no contact, and gradually building up, again, should help with the pulling issue.

 

[MJS]

That is one the reason I tell people to work on a heavy bag. Take it to town on the bag. I also try to get my students to work with somebody who is much larger. This way they have to pull it less. Another way is to wear an ovr-sized glove. When I box and kickbox I wear a 20 oz. glove. It is like putting a pillow on your hand. The heavy glove mixed with my sparring partners wearing chest protectors and I can go pretty hard without risking as much injury to them. Keep in mind that even with all the adde gear you still can't go for a knockout in training. If you do that you will not have anybody to train with.

There are countless ways to work your techniques at more of a "full" speed without injury to either you or your training partners.

Great point about the glove. I like doing this, as it allows the attacker to throw a hard strike, giving the proper mindset for the defender and at the same time, offers some protection in the event of a mistake.

Mike

 

[cfr]

Thanks for all the great responses. Interesting stuff.

 

[Shotochem]

BOB is the perfect training partner. THe harder you hit him the more you love him. Great for punching, kicking, elbows, knees, and every type of hand strike.

Feels like hitting a real person only without the lawsuit!!!!

 

[searcher]

BOB is the perfect training partner. THe harder you hit him the more you love him. Great for punching, kicking, elbows, knees, and every type of hand strike.

Feels like hitting a real person only without the lawsuit!!!!

The problem with BOB is that if you hit him with a good uppercut his head comes off. And yes this happened to me. Stinking BOB.

 

[Bigshadow]

We don't pull punches. We go slowly until both sides learn it, then pick up the speed component.