I think my professor lied to me

[skribs]

Yesterday, I was working with my professor. I am a 5-day white belt, he is a 3rd-degree black belt. He had me drill a technique we worked earlier in the week, and told me he'd ramp up the resistance, starting at 10%, and moving up to 100%.

I am fairly confident he did not actually give me 100% resistance.

While the above statements are technically true, it is tongue-in-cheek, I still love class.

 

[Rich Parsons]

Yesterday, I was working with my professor. I am a 5-day white belt, he is a 3rd-degree black belt. He had me drill a technique we worked earlier in the week, and told me he'd ramp up the resistance, starting at 10%, and moving up to 100%.

I am fairly confident he did not actually give me 100% resistance.

While the above statements are technically true, it is tongue-in-cheek, I still love class.

Not knowing either of you nor seen anything in video. (* Not asking *)

Could he have given you the 100% White Belt Resistance?

 

[drop bear]

Wrist lock him.

Easiest way to tell.

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

100% resistance.

The term resistance has different meaning in the wrestling art than in the striking art. In the striking art, resistance may mean to dodge/block your kicks/punches. In the wrestling art, resistance may mean force against force (A - B < A).

In the wrestling art, one should learn how to borrow force instead ( A + B > A).

 

[skribs]

Not knowing either of you nor seen anything in video. (* Not asking *)

Could he have given you the 100% White Belt Resistance?

I'm guessing 100% of what I can handle and still succeed.

 

[Olde Phart]

I would think it was 100% of what he thought you could handle.

I was taught by a 74 year old grandmaster of Kyuki-do. I'm 67. He and his brother came over in 1968 from Korea and they started teaching in dojangs with concrete floors (no mats!). His brother eventually set up the American Kyuki-do Federation in the 70's. After I got up in the belt order, but not black, I thought I'd be a little frisky with him during grappling practice. Sort of as a surprise. Lordy! Not really a bad mistake, but certainly a learning experience. He's about a foot shorter, older, lighter. He won!

I find when I am teaching lower belts (now that I am a black), I pull everything and go slower so they can "get it". Not that I am the greatest or the fastest, but there IS a difference.

 

[skribs]

Wrist lock him.

Easiest way to tell.

I have purposefully avoided using wristlocks for 3 reasons:

1. It wouldn't be fair to the other white belts if I did wristlocks on them.
2. It's not allowed for white belts.
3. I really, really don't want the higher belts to start considering me fair game if I used one on them.

The term resistance has different meaning in the wrestling art than in the striking art. In the striking art, resistance may mean to dodge/block your kicks/punches. In the wrestling art, resistance may mean force against force (A - B < A).

In the wrestling art, one should learn how to borrow force instead ( A + B > A).

How is this relevant to the discussion? We're on a grappling forum, so obviously we're talking about grappling.

There are times to resist force and times to borrow it. As with the response to the vast majority of your posts, it's not about A or B being better. It depends on the situation.

Of course, in this case, "resistance" doesn't just mean "I'm going to out-muscle you by meeting force with force." It also means he's going to try to keep me from getting a grip, try to redirect my force, try to block my movement by framing so I can't get there, and sometimes to just win with strength. It's a combination of the two options you provide as being a binary choice, but also with others present.

On top of that, my professor's goal was not to win. It was to teach me how to apply the technique on someone who is noncompliant. His objective was to be just noncompliant enough that I would struggle, but still succeed. And he achieved that goal. So I would say his resistance was entirely appropriate for the situation.

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

"resistance" ... also means he's going to try to keep me from getting a grip,

First let me try to understand your definition of "resistance".

Will you consider the following as "resistance"?

You try to

- underhook my arm. I raise my arm straight up, so you just underhook into the thin air.
- wrap my arm. I rotate my arm the same direction as your arm, so you just wrap into the thin air.
- grab me. I move back, you just grab into the thin air.
- ...

In other words, by your definition, does "avoid contact" also mean "resistance"?

To me, both "avoid contact" and "borrow force" are not "resistance".

 

[skribs]

First let me try to understand your definition of "resistance".

Will you consider the following as "resistance"?

You try to

- underhook my arm. I raise my arm straight up, so you just underhook into the thin air.
- wrap my arm. I rotate my arm the same direction as your arm, so you just wrap into the thin air.
- grab me. I move back, you just grab into the thin air.
- ...

In other words, by your definition, does "avoid contact" also mean "resistance"?

To me, both "avoid contact" and "borrow force" are not "resistance".

Resistance can be one of two (or more) things. It can either be:

• Prevent the opponent from achieving their goals
• A specific method of preventing the opponent from achieving their goals, which is done by applying strength against their force

Borrowing force is combining resistance (first definition) with your own technique. So it is resistance-adjacent.

Of the three examples you provided, I would consider all of them to meet the first definition of preventing me from setting a grip, but not the more specific definition of brute forcing it.

 

[Tony Dismukes]

First let me try to understand your definition of "resistance".

Will you consider the following as "resistance"?

You try to

- underhook my arm. I raise my arm straight up, so you just underhook into the thin air.
- wrap my arm. I rotate my arm the same direction as your arm, so you just wrap into the thin air.
- grab me. I move back, you just grab into the thin air.
- ...

In other words, by your definition, does "avoid contact" also mean "resistance"?

To me, both "avoid contact" and "borrow force" are not "resistance".

I can't speak for skribs, but in the context that he is speaking of, I would call those examples "resistance". The idea is that I am trying to accomplish something and you are working to prevent me from accomplishing my goal. If I wanted to refer to opposing force with force (i.e. I push you and you push back, then I would call that "direct resistance".)

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

Of the three examples you provided, I would consider all of them to meet the first definition of preventing me from setting a grip,

So if I run away from your attack is also considered as "resistance" by your definition.

IMO, "escape" should not be treated as "resistance".

To me, when I sweep your leg, if you

- turn your shin bone into my sweep, that's "resistance".
- lift your leg, and let my foot to go under, that's "escape". Since I only dear with the thin air, I don't feel any "resistance" at all.

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

I am trying to accomplish something and you are working to prevent me from accomplishing my goal.

Again if you let me to deal with the thin air, that's "escape" and not "resist" by my definition.

 

[Tony Dismukes]

Again if you let me to deal with the thin air, that's "escape" and not "resist" by my definition.

That's fine. As long as we know what each other means when we're talking. The way skribs and I used the term is the way it's generally used in the general context of BJJ sparring. We'd make the finer distinctions of "escaping", blending", "redirecting", "pushing back", etc if we're breaking down a specific technique. But if we're just talking about how hard we are making the sparring for someone, we'd talk about degrees of resistance.

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

That's fine. As long as we know what each other means when we're talking. The way skribs and I used the term is the way it's generally used in the general context of BJJ sparring. We'd make the finer distinctions of "escaping", blending", "redirecting", "pushing back", etc if we're breaking down a specific technique. But if we're just talking about how hard we are making the sparring for someone, we'd talk about degrees of resistance.

In the

- stand up game, when one tries to "avoid fighting (escape)", the referee would give him warning. 2 or 3 warning may disqualify him.

- ground game, there is no such thing as "avoid fighting (escape)" since both person would be tangled together anyway.

 

[skribs]

Again if you let me to deal with the thin air, that's "escape" and not "resist" by my definition.

Words are just words. We can argue them until the cows come home, but that won't get us anywhere.

In the

- stand up game, when one tries to "avoid fighting (escape)", the referee would give him warning. 2 or 3 warning may disqualify him.

- ground game, there is no such thing as "avoid fighting (escape)" since both person would be tangled together anyway.

This is absolutely 100% patently false. If all you do is use range to stall, then yes, you will get penalty. But in striking, it is very common to dodge attacks by outranging them. Forward and backward movement is very common in Taekwondo and boxing, and I'm sure plenty of others.

In wrestling, we trained escapes. Why? Because you get 1 point for escape (2 for reversal, 3 for takedown). Not only was it an option, but you got points for it. In my BJJ class today, we were working on escapes where we create distance away from our opponent.

In fact, I challenge you to find me a rule set for striking in which dodging an attack is a foul, or a rule set for grappling in which escaping your opponent's grasp is a foul.

 

[drop bear]

I have purposefully avoided using wristlocks for 3 reasons:

1. It wouldn't be fair to the other white belts if I did wristlocks on them.
2. It's not allowed for white belts.
3. I really, really don't want the higher belts to start considering me fair game if I used one on them.

Just go slow. If they are still wrist locked after about 10 seconds or so then put it on.

The issue is everyone wants to snap them on which is a bit douchy.

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

In fact, I challenge you to find me a rule set for striking in which dodging an attack is a foul, or a rule set for grappling in which escaping your opponent's grasp is a foul.

Not dodging an attack, but refuse to attack (play defense only). If both persons play defense, the fight will never start. In SD, that's OK. In tournament, that's not OK.

There was one Chinese wrestling tournament in Taiwan. During the championship fight, both persons refused to attack (play defense only). Both were disquilified. The 3rd place became the 1st place. The 4th place became the 2nd place.

 

[skribs]

Just go slow. If they are still wrist locked after about 10 seconds or so then put it on.

The issue is everyone wants to snap them on which is a bit douchy.

This is something we learned very fast in Hapkido. Along with, "tap when you feel the lock starting, not when it's fully set, or else you won't be able to use your hands for 2 days." One or two isn't bad, but when it's the whole class...

Not dodging an attack, but refuse to attack (play defense only). If both persons play defense, the fight will never start. In SD, that's OK. In tournament, that's not OK.

There was one Chinese wrestling tournament in Taiwan. During the championship fight, both persons refused to attack (play defense only). Both were disquilified. The 3rd place became the 1st place. The 4th place became the 2nd place.

And again, how is that relevant to the thread? We're not talking about that. Nobody is talking about that. You're picking extreme unrelated examples to make a point that doesn't even address the post.

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

And again, how is that relevant to the thread? We're not talking about that. Nobody is talking about that. You're picking extreme unrelated examples to make a point that doesn't even address the post.

Because I try to understand your definition of "100% resistance".

 

[skribs]

Because I try to understand your definition of "100% resistance".

You seem to be the only one struggling with that.