I said it before...drug users...

[Bill Mattocks]

If you buy and use drugs that came from outside the USA, you are supporting terrorism and murder. I don't care how you justify it to yourself so you can sleep at night, you have blood on your hands.

http://edition.cnn.com/2011/WORLD/americas/09/14/mexico.violence/index.html?hpt=hp_t2

(CNN) -- Social media users who denounce drug cartel activities along the Mexican border received a brutal warning this week: Two mangled bodies hanging like cuts of meat from a pedestrian bridge.

A woman was hogtied and disemboweled, her intestines protruding from three deep cuts on her abdomen. Attackers left her topless, dangling by her feet and hands from a bridge in the border city of Nuevo Laredo. A bloodied man next to her was hanging by his hands, his right shoulder severed so deeply the bone was visible.

Signs left near the bodies declared the pair, both apparently in their early 20s, were killed for posting denouncements of drug cartel activities on a social network.

"This is going to happen to all of those posting funny things on the Internet," one sign said. "You better (expletive) pay attention. I'm about to get you."

People talk about Muslims sending money to terrorist organizations through fake charities in the US; this is more or less the same thing. You buy your drugs, these are the people you're buying them from, further upstream. You are guilty in this. Stop buying and using illegal drugs.

 

[billc]

Thanks for this post Bill Mattocks. I am going to post it and spread it around. Thanks.

 

[mook jong man]

When are the authorities over there going to get that joint under control ? , it seems like it's just one atrocity after another.

 

[Omar B]

Talk about your out of control gang problems.

 

[Cyriacus]

Well, at least im not the only Person who sees that these Narcotics all come from Somewere.
And sometimes those Places are Less than Palatable.

 

[MA-Caver]

It's part of the reason why the drug war is a damned joke. No, seriously it is. All our resources, all our military might and everything else that could be used to stop the drug cartels outside our borders when we so boldly invade other countries that the ones closest to us are ignored. We should declare an actual war upon those cartels and take the fight to them. We've the methods of knowing who/where they are but for some weird reason don't go invade Columbia, Brazil, Panama, Mexico and all the others that send drugs our way by our southern borders.
Oh sure, fight the Taliban on their home turf as they use Poppy/Opium plants to finance their efforts against us. But do nothing to the criminals south of Texas and in the Central and South Americas. Funny how that doesn't seem to be a priority. It's not a matter of national security enough for us to take the fight to them and eradicate them. Damn the politics that make us stay our hand and prevent our entry to those countries where the crap is grown, made and shipped out and our money is sent to them.
Smugglers that are caught within the U.S. should be shot on sight and their heads posted on spikes lining our borders as a warning to them. Patrol the borders with Nat. Guard gunships and blast any smugglers, scouts whomever is armed.
Sure, sure care must be taken for innocent illegals who seek to escape the violence by crossing our borders that they don't get in the crossfires. Offer amnesty to those who would show troops where these smuggler routes and hide-outs are.
Want to stop the violence then stop them with equal and greater violence, quickly and decisively. We've the technology... use it. Then deal with U.S. growers and manufacturers afterwards.

Maybe I'm ju$t being naive and don't under$tand the delicatene$$ of the politic$ of the $ituation that prevent$ $uch action$. Why numerous of presidents don't persuade congress to allow such actions be taken. Terrorism? What is more terrifying than the violence that is happening south of our borders?

 

[seasoned]

Precisely, once someone is hooked, it is very difficult to "just say no". Politics, and vast amounts of money are involved, making it a very lucrative business. Hell, a lot of people are hooked on the legal drugs called cigarettes which generates a lot of tax money and strains our medical facilities greatly.
The cliché, "war on drugs" is hollow and useless, unless we stop fighting the effects, and start fighting the root cause.

 

[JohnEdward]

Colombia went through the same thing as Mexico is now. But Mexico is worse, obviously, and is currently making the Colombian drug cartel rein of terror like a Halloween party. I hear stories like that all the time. People killed and their bodies stuffed with drugs to transport them. In the 1990s it was bad then, beheading all over the place. I remember seeing a Mexican metal band's album cover showing in side a horse stable, bales of cocaine at least 5 foot high in a semi-circle of 10-15 ft, and a man's bloody severed head on the ground. The corruption in government has always been bad in Mexico, and they are part of the problem. Dubbed as a sleeping giant, we in the US, have always been reactionary to these situations, and not proactive. Our politics to a good extent makes us that way.


Our political system differences on this matter threatens are security in this matter. One party wants to ignore the gorilla in the room, and not spend the money to fix the problem, and the other party is living in Disneyland wearing rose colored glasses and thinking everyone is Snow White that comes to this country. Until the problem is so prevalent to a point it can no longer be ignored and it slaps off the rose colored glasses. Like, you guessed it, it took the act of 9/11 to start taking muslim terrorism seriously.

When we do get involved on a reactionary basis we get in neck deep, spending money and costing lives, and not stopping the problem. Rather than nipping it in the bud and being proactive on this matter, it is going to take like hundreds of Americans disemboweled hanging nude from a bridge. Cities shot up like Nuevo Leon. It has to be a National security "crisis." That is what is sad.

America like other countries has an illegal drug problem, you can't cure that. You can't even talk sense into that. It is a huge problem and contributes to allot of crime as a result of illegal drugs. Do you stop it be legalizing it or putting more thumb screws on the issue. I don't know. I don't think your ever going to stop it. You can reduce it, but would that diminish the Mexican drug cartels? No. You do what you do in neighborhoods to get ride of the crime. You clean the place up, change the environment. For Mexico that would mean, a sound and fair democracy, people changing their corrupt ways, people getting together for a common goal. But now the question is will that happen. Nope. It isn't in the culture or history of Mexico for that. I predict what will happen is a destruction of their country where one drug cartel wins takes all the power. Then they tone down with the violence, and after some decades of ruling as Mexico has always been ruled since the rule of the Aztecs. Being very much like the days when organized crime ran Vegas. It will start all over again. The caveat and the exception is how much influence and power the muslim terrorist will gain, if they are squelched my the drug cartels the previous prediction holds. If not, and they get a strong hold on Mexico and attack us from there, it of course will be a new front in the war on terror.

 

[Bill Mattocks]

One can nod their head and blame complex factors and big governments for their lack of ability to fix the situation; but there is a bottom line. The drug dealers sell drugs because people buy them. If you're buying illicit drugs from outside the USA, you fund these murderers.

 

[Cyriacus]

One can nod their head and blame complex factors and big governments for their lack of ability to fix the situation; but there is a bottom line. The drug dealers sell drugs because people buy them. If you're buying illicit drugs from outside the USA, you fund these murderers.

Im inclined to agree.
I find it somewhat Tragic that, for example, Heroitics spend Money not only to Dope themselves into Oblivion, but they are funding Dealers, who get their Goods from Suppliers, who may be getting their Supplies from Murderers.

 

[elder999]

One can nod their head and blame complex factors and big governments for their lack of ability to fix the situation; but there is a bottom line. The drug dealers sell drugs because people buy them. If you're buying illicit drugs from outside the USA, you fund these murderers.

Heck-those same murderers are running marijuana plantations inside the U.S., in our National Forests and parks.

As far as drugs go, the only countries that don't have real "drug related crime" problems used one of two solutions-make drugs and their use legal or quasi-legal with restrictions, or take all the drug dealers and users out and shoot them, with a death penalty for drug use, possession or sale.

First and best solution is to make the drugs legal here in the U.S.(since we're not about to use the other solution), with a variety of restrictions-some of those murderers will become legal businessmen. Some will move onto something else or retire. The crime in Mexico won't stop, because their government is completely corrupt, from top to bottom :see who screams loudest if we were to ever try to make drugs legal, even though doing so would make the primary motivation for their current troubles evaporate-though I'm sure Mexico exports heroin and marijuana to a bunch of other places as well.

Make the drugs legal. Less drug related crime and violence, and, in the case of harder drugs, ultimately, less users-let those heroin addicts have all the pure heroin they can stand for as long as they can stand it. Talk about a death sentence.

 

[Steve]

Great point. People shouldn't buy or use illegal drugs. Meth is some pretty terrible stuff, and very addictive.

However, if we legalize it, it undercuts the entire operation. Meth IS a huge problem in America right now. In spite of it being illegal, it is very easily acquired. We are dealing with an epidemic of addiction and crime related to the illegal use of this drug. We face similar problems with other recreational drugs. If the prohibition is lifted, the drug can be regulated and the criminals lose their cash cow.

While I honestly believe that this issue has been debated to death in the Study, you brought it up again. I don't know whether there's a one size fits all solution to this, but I believe very strongly that there are some illegal drugs that should be legalized. I also believe that doing so will have a huge positive affect on our country. Fewer criminals in jail for using the drug. Fewer crimes committed in relation to acquiring the drugs. Regulatory control on the quality and strength of the drug. Better statistics on use and sales. And a general decriminalization in the production, distribution and sale.

How could I possibly know these things? We've experienced it first hand with prohibition. It created crime. It criminalized people who were otherwise law abiding. It created violence in our streets where people were gunned down in cold blood. It represented a huge loss of revenue for the government when booze went underground. It's right there in the history books.

 

[Cyriacus]

Great point. People shouldn't buy or use illegal drugs. Meth is some pretty terrible stuff, and very addictive.

However, if we legalize it, it undercuts the entire operation. Meth IS a huge problem in America right now. In spite of it being illegal, it is very easily acquired. We are dealing with an epidemic of addiction and crime related to the illegal use of this drug. We face similar problems with other recreational drugs. If the prohibition is lifted, the drug can be regulated and the criminals lose their cash cow.

While I honestly believe that this issue has been debated to death in the Study, you brought it up again. I don't know whether there's a one size fits all solution to this, but I believe very strongly that there are some illegal drugs that should be legalized. I also believe that doing so will have a huge positive affect on our country. Fewer criminals in jail for using the drug. Fewer crimes committed in relation to acquiring the drugs. Regulatory control on the quality and strength of the drug. Better statistics on use and sales. And a general decriminalization in the production, distribution and sale.

How could I possibly know these things? We've experienced it first hand with prohibition. It created crime. It criminalized people who were otherwise law abiding. It created violence in our streets where people were gunned down in cold blood. It represented a huge loss of revenue for the government when booze went underground. It's right there in the history books.

This is always a fun thing to discuss.
Im going to withhold my Opinions to an extend, this isnt about Legality of Drugs, so ill make it quick.

The Criminal Organisations sorrounding Narcotics would have their Legs Dismembered by such a Law, allowing Drugs. Theyd still exist, but merely to sell things at illegal prices or resale.

 

[elder999]

This is always a fun thing to discuss.
Im going to withhold my Opinions to an extend, this isnt about Legality of Drugs, so ill make it quick.

The Criminal Organisations sorrounding Narcotics would have their Legs Dismembered by such a Law, allowing Drugs. Theyd still exist, but merely to sell things at illegal prices or resale.

They'd probably do just as organized crime did in this country when Prohibition ended, and move onto other vices, and whatever legitimate businesses they've invested in. The motivation for violence would be taken away, though.

 

[granfire]

I do believe they are already into things like kidnapping and human trafficing...

 

[KempoGuy06]

wow! that is nuts

speaking as a former drug user and addict (drugs are bad ummkay). We need to get a handle on this and crush these organizations that are ruining this country. Ive seen good friends die because of drugs and i am tired of it

B

 

[JohnEdward]

One can nod their head and blame complex factors and big governments for their lack of ability to fix the situation; but there is a bottom line. The drug dealers sell drugs because people buy them. If you're buying illicit drugs from outside the USA, you fund these murderers.

Bill that is true, I will not argue that as it is. But, you can't do that realistically. Beer for example, dates back to the 6th century. Coca and all the other plants like mushrooms, etc. by which existed before man, where used long before the 6th century. Unless you want a dictatorship that doles out death a punishment for drug use, only than will it not be so prevalent. Even countries that have death as the punishment for drug use have low usage and it isn't completely irradiated.

The idea Mexico's crime problem can be solved by countries populations stopping their drug abuse is really a myth and fallacy. If you know the general history of how the drug cartels came into power in Mexico, you understand what the real issue is. Which is tied to Mexico's history, social, political and economical issues, and factors. All of which have been rooted back to the coming into power and domination of Mexico by the Aztecs. The Aztecs where not highly looked up prior to there rein. Then you have Cortex, and the Mexican Revolution as major highlighted foot print examples. Mexico isn't the US, they have extreme racial and prejudice issues plaguing their society, a mist the obvious decades of corruption, economics, do I need to go on? All of this gave the drug cartel the same opportunity as Cortez, to gain power. The difference is in this internal strife you have many drug cartels, fueled by drug money, not created by) competing for power. Yes, the intensity of the conflict would be less if it wasn't for the illegal drug market. But if it wasn't drug money it would be something else. The drug cartels where initially turned to as an alley against the corrupt government. Now those same people shunned by the drug cartels are turning to middle eastern terrorist groups to take up their cause against a corrupt government, to erase the the huge gap between the rich and poor in Mexico. The worst could be yet to come. The Mexican government abuses it's people, some of the people will turn to anyone for help, and they did.

The issue is far more complexed than the world's appetite for illegal drugs.

 

[Bill Mattocks]

The issue is far more complexed than the world's appetite for illegal drugs.

I agree with the difficulty of curbing drug use, or of the addict's ability to just stop using drugs. I'm not saying "Just say no."

What I *am* saying is that the individual illicit drug user has a personal responsibility for these murders. If a person is an illicit drug user and thinks that by blaming governments, policies, enforcement, or other human issues, they are escaping from their own moral responsibility, I say they are wrong. If one is snorting coke or smoking crack today, one is in league with these murderers. Refuse to accept it if one wishes; but as far as I'm concerned, the illicit drug user is no better than the murderers themselves. They might as well be pulling the trigger every time they spark up.

 

[elder999]

I agree with the difficulty of curbing drug use, or of the addict's ability to just stop using drugs. I'm not saying "Just say no."

What I *am* saying is that the individual illicit drug user has a personal responsibility for these murders. If a person is an illicit drug user and thinks that by blaming governments, policies, enforcement, or other human issues, they are escaping from their own moral responsibility, I say they are wrong. If one is snorting coke or smoking crack today, one is in league with these murderers. Refuse to accept it if one wishes; but as far as I'm concerned, the illicit drug user is no better than the murderers themselves. They might as well be pulling the trigger every time they spark up.

Well, I doubt that there are many crack smokers on this forum....in any case, making the drug use, possession and sale licit is the most viable solution.

 

[Bill Mattocks]

Well, I doubt that there are many crack smokers on this forum....in any case, making the drug use, possession and sale licit is the most viable solution.

I'm not suggesting that any MT readers are crack-smokers. But the part of your statement I bolded - that's a classic sidestep. I refuse to accept personal responsibility for my actions because someone else could do something that would let me do what I want to do guilt-free. BS. I might as easily say that the best way to solve the problem with arson is to legalize it; then I'll feel better about my being a fire-bug. Whether or not legalizing illegal drugs would 'solve' the problem or not is another question. The point is that such drugs are NOT legal, and the people who use them are responsible for the consequences of their actions, including these murders. Woulda, coulda, shoulda doesn't mean much to me in this case.