How would you defend against a hook?

[ella_guru]

Title pretty much says it all. I've heard people say to tan the inside of the arm but in my experience you'd have to be MUCH faster than the opponent.

So , not that there is a RIGHT answer, I'm curious how you would "ideally" deal with a hook style punch.

 

[Touch Of Death]

Duck!

 

[Nabakatsu]

In my lineage we would do somewhat of a chum kiu step while also executing an outside fook sau, which is pretty much like a tan sau except your palm is facing downwards, as we step we will use our momentum and adduction in conjection with turning the outside fook sau into a semi lap sau to full fledged lap sau depending on the energy we receive.

 

[wtxs]

Duck!

:duh::duh::duh::lfao::lfao::lfao:

 

[mook jong man]

Title pretty much says it all. I've heard people say to tan the inside of the arm but in my experience you'd have to be MUCH faster than the opponent.

So , not that there is a RIGHT answer, I'm curious how you would "ideally" deal with a hook style punch.

Your primary defence will be your centreline punch , ie punching as soon as you see him move, attack , attack , attack.
Your secondary defence will be your Tan Sau.

Its not my preference but it is an ok technique used in the right circumstances , I think it works best against a rather committed type of circular strike .

If we just forget the fact for a moment that I am going to punch as soon as he moves , that will take a lot of impetus out of his strike .

From the persective of dealing with his force , the number one thing that people do wrong is that they don't position themselves properly in relation to the attacking force.

You have to orientate your body and Tan Sau so that it is facing the direction , that the force is coming from , if you fail to do this the hook is just going to act like a big parry , knock your arm down and cave your head in.

Present the strongest structure you can against the incoming force.

At short range you may use your pivot to orientate yourself properly , and at longer range we use a type of footwork in our lineage called "Planing".

Planing is similar to a car that has aquaplaned on a wet road , even though the direction of the car is forward , the position of the car itself is angled.

Basically its just stepping so that one hip is thrown forward so that the body finishes up at an angle instead of square on.

I would say the big pro of the technique is the power that can be generated in your strike from the pivot or the "planing footwork".
The con would be that you are not squared up to your attacker , which is my preference .

We actually prefer to use the Tan Sau against a back hand or back fist type of strike , for a hook we prefer to use what we call a Dai Sau.

Probably easiest way to picture it would be to say , raise your Fook Sau till the wrist is level with the top of your head.

Now straighten your hand so it looks like a salute , move the wrist off the centreline and put your fingertips on the centreline.

Then move the elbow out a bit , and if we face a mirror it should look like our head is in one side of a triangle.
So from the guard you raise the Dai Sau up with a punch from your other hand of course.

As the punch comes in raise your whole arm from the elbow using a shearing deflection on the inside of his arm with your forearm , this redirects his punch up and away from your head.

If the force is very circular we can dissipate a lot of that force by raising the Dai Sau and allowing it to roll a little like a Bong Sau.

The big plus of this technique is that structurally it is very strong because the bone of our upper arm from shoulder to the elbow is facing the direction that his force is coming from.

Also what some time happens is that he will actually drive the inside of his forearm into the point of your elbow , effectively destroying his own limb.

But the biggest selling point is that it is a more economical movement in the sense that you can move in square on and be ready for anything coming from his other hand .

 

[WC_lun]

bil da technique works well if you step toward the flank on the side of the hook. It isolates the arm from the person's body, robbing them of power, and if the da part doesn't finish them, you are in a great position to chum kui immediately.

 

[BloodMoney]

As usual, Mook Jung is on the money

I personally would only use Dai Sau (as in 4 Corners) as its specifically made to counter that exact attack. Given the 3d circular movement of Dai it is possible to counter even the strongest running hook/haymaker. I got some of the biggest boys in the club to demonstrate this the other night by trying to hook me in the head as hard as they could. Even with forarm pads it only took each of them one hit to decide they didnt want to play that game.

Tan Sau does work, but I dont like it in this situation. Pak Sau to the bicep works, with simultaneous punch but you tend to cross your hands too much for my liking.

Dai Sau all the way

 

[geezer]

Coming from an offshoot of the WT system, we don't have "dai sau". We do have a technique we call fook-sau... not the hook-handed centerline fook-sau of SNT, but another kind of fook-sau technique formed like the turning stance tan-sau of Chum-Kiu, except with the wrist straight and the palm down, and usually held a little higher and extended a bit further... In other words, something that both sounds a lot like and is applied a lot like "dai-sau". Anyway, that kind of "dai" or "fook" or whatever you call it together with a simultaneously delivered hard straight punch is my best bet against a long "haymaker" type hook.

A tight, close-range boxer's hook is a lot more dangerous, since you don't see it coming. Those you gotta stick to and treat almost like an elbow...or better, take the offense with your straight punching and don't give your opponent a chance to use them.

...Or you can kick 'em in the knee.

 

[ella_guru]

Thanks a lot mook! And others, this is all very helpful. It's just most of the times when I see this question brought up (even some of the people in my club!) they show me a "hook" which is some big drunken swinging baffoonish movement. Well if that's how everyone punched I wouldn't bother worrying much about self defense.

Some really nice ideas coming and I can see this is obviously a difficult punch to deal with..

This Dai Sau though, does anyone have video or something? I've never heard this term thrown around my group.. Lineages aside, I'm interested! : )

 

[mook jong man]

Thanks a lot mook! And others, this is all very helpful. It's just most of the times when I see this question brought up (even some of the people in my club!) they show me a "hook" which is some big drunken swinging baffoonish movement. Well if that's how everyone punched I wouldn't bother worrying much about self defense.

Some really nice ideas coming and I can see this is obviously a difficult punch to deal with..

This Dai Sau though, does anyone have video or something? I've never heard this term thrown around my group.. Lineages aside, I'm interested! : )

From what I understand it came in to being when my late Sifu Jim Fung moved to Australia and had trouble dealing with boxers hook punches.

So he told Sigung Tsui about it and he came up with the Dai Sau.
But I'm sure other people must have come up with something like it , its pretty simple when you think about , all we are doing is mirroring the position of the opponents elbow.

In this video here the young lady after jamming the attempted kick does two separate Dai Sau and punch to defend against two consecutive hook punches at exactly 1:30.

The video quality is not too good and the camera work is shakey but it will give you a basic idea.

 

[cwk]

I tend to grab the back of my head with my hand on the same side as the punch is coming from. making sure my ear area is covered by my forearm,jaw covered by my upper arm and my chin covered by my elbow.
then I just step in a little thus making the hook slide harmlessly of my arm and elbow ( this can also be done with a tiu sao coming back towards your ear but it takes more skill in the timing), then pivot as your step lands and do a vertical panther fist (chap choi) or a pak/ wu in to the shoulder joint of the opponents punching arm.

 

[hpclub1000]

Quite a few people have focussed upon what technique and structure is best applied against a hook. My sifu explained to me that circular techniques such as hooks, haymakers, roundhouse kicks have a life cycle. And with most life cycles the start of the life cycle of the punch or kick there isn't alot of power genertated. At the end of the life cycle, the technique its far more powerful.

So effectively it's best to intercept the punch or kick when its young in its life cycle and close to its source of power, which is likely to be the upper arm on the punch or, for a roundhouse, the upper thigh near the hip.

 

[mook jong man]

Quite a few people have focussed upon what technique and structure is best applied against a hook. My sifu explained to me that circular techniques such as hooks, haymakers, roundhouse kicks have a life cycle. And with most life cycles the start of the life cycle of the punch or kick there isn't alot of power genertated. At the end of the life cycle, the technique its far more powerful.

So effectively it's best to intercept the punch or kick when its young in its life cycle and close to its source of power, which is likely to be the upper arm on the punch or, for a roundhouse, the upper thigh near the hip.

I got hit in the temple by one once and it floored me , for a few seconds there I felt like I was pretty close to the end of my life cycle.

But all kidding aside you are a 110% correct its best to counter these things before they have a chance to build up momentum.

 

[vatesi]

In an ideal situation, a good smack to the bicep is the best course of action against a hook. Simple physics really, the further away from the pivot (the shoulder) the less turning effect. Also, it hurts like a ***** and it lets you get inside setting up a chain punch beatdown.

In my opinion, it's really hard to pull off in a real situation the window of opportunity is very small for a tight hook, and you have to be able to get in range really fast for a long hook. If you can't jam the hook, there's no shame in covering up and taking the hit like a boxer before retaliating.

 

[matsu]

Your primary defence will be your centreline punch , ie punching as soon as you see him move, attack , attack , attack.

sifu will always say why block if you can punch.
or otherwise and i believe we would use a laan sau in the same way as you guys describe dai sau with a punch as we step in to smother the distance and therefore the power of the incoming swinging punch.

but some very helpful posts here. thank you
matsu

 

[KamonGuy2]

There are a lot of different ways to defend against a hook and you have to really decide what suits you and your frame

A lot comes down to what kind of hook comes in
ie will it be a tight hook, a wide hook, a hook to your ribs, a hook to your face, etc

Generally, tan sao is a good technique to use, but you must think of your attack as your primarty defence. The tan sao is there just in case the hit still comes in

I find dip sao a very good defence to use for most outside gate strikes

I know someone on here said duck - that is the worst thing to do if you are a chunner or if you are in a streetfight
For that split second you have no good body mechanics to work off of and risk getting a knee in the head or subjected to a clinch

Easiest way is to move your body - it is a natural reaction (moving out of the way of a hit), and just needs taming

My advice is to practice getting (good) hooks fed into you by an opponent wearing 14 or 16 oz gloves. It soon gets you moving and reacting!

 

[zepedawingchun]

From what I understand it came in to being when my late Sifu Jim Fung moved to Australia and had trouble dealing with boxers hook punches.

So he told Sigung Tsui about it and he came up with the Dai Sau.
But I'm sure other people must have come up with something like it , its pretty simple when you think about , all we are doing is mirroring the position of the opponents elbow.

In this video here the young lady after jamming the attempted kick does two separate Dai Sau and punch to defend against two consecutive hook punches at exactly 1:30.

The video quality is not too good and the camera work is shakey but it will give you a basic idea.

The dai sao looks like what we call biu sao. For hooking punches to the head and neck, we train to use a biu da (biu sao in conjunction with a punch). And hooking punches to the ribs and solorplexus/stomach, we train using a gan da (gan sao in conjunction with a punch).

For the gan da, you find the proper execution in the first set of Muk Yan Jong form, 6th motion, right after you step to the left side of the jong and do the tan sao wan jern. It is done when sliding the right leg out and doing the gan sao to the lower jong arm and jop/tan sao to the upper jong left arm. A punch replaces the jop/tan sao hand position in the dummy form when applying this motion against a hook thrown to the ribs or stomach.

 

[Xue Sheng]

I’m sorry I have tried and tried and tried to restrain myself but I can sit silently no longer.

Based on this question “How would you defend against a hook? “

My very first thought was

Hmm…fighting a lot of pirates are you

 

[zepedawingchun]

For fighting a pirate like that, I'd call on Peter Pan and Tinker Bell.

 

[ella_guru]

Xueeeeee



>_<