How many years did you train before you peaked?

[mrt2]

I was thinking about this last night in class. After class, one of the black belts complimented me on my progress over the last couple of months. I thanked him but replied, it is actually pretty easy to stay motivated when you are a lower belt. The progress comes relatively quickly. I told him that maintaining motivation to train over a period of years is a far more impressive feat.

But it had me thinking. How many years before you reach you peak? 4 years? 5? 10? For those of you training 20 years or more, do you think you are still improving?

 

[JowGaWolf]

I haven't peaked yet. I'm still improving. I understand more now that I'm older, but the downside is that I'm no longer as fit as I was when I was in my 20's or 30's. Sort of like a trade off, but definitely not a peak.

 

[Tony Dismukes]

I’ve been training for about 37 years and I’m still improving.

Not my cardio, though. My cardio sucks.

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

For those of you training 20 years or more, do you think you are still improving?

In your

- 1st 30 years of training, you try to "improve" something.
- 2nd 30 years of training, you try to "maintain" something.

That "something" will apply on your speed, flexibility, balance, and endurance.

The things that will keep improving (will never peak) are your strength, experience, and knowledge.

 

[Danny T]

Still growing. Attributes have changed so it is a constant refining.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

I was thinking about this last night in class. After class, one of the black belts complimented me on my progress over the last couple of months. I thanked him but replied, it is actually pretty easy to stay motivated when you are a lower belt. The progress comes relatively quickly. I told him that maintaining motivation to train over a period of years is a far more impressive feat.

But it had me thinking. How many years before you reach you peak? 4 years? 5? 10? For those of you training 20 years or more, do you think you are still improving?

Peaked at which part? There are things I did better at 30 (18 years ago, 18 years into my MA training, 12 years into my primary art) than I do now. There's another group of things (probably a larger group) I do better now than I did then. Some of the reason things were better 18 years ago is age (I was faster and more fearless then), and part is focus (I was probably more technically accurate at forms at 30 - now I'm more effective at application).

 

[RTKDCMB]

My training has been more like a mountain range than just a single mountain.

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

Peaked at which part?

The peak can be seen this way.

In ground game, after your

- 3 years training, you still can't use your head squeeze to tape out your opponent.
- 10 years training, you can use your head squeeze to tape out your opponent within 10 second.
- 20 years training you can use your head squeeze to tape out your opponent within 5 second.
- 30 years training, you can ...

If you can use your head squeeze to tape out your opponents within 3 second. You can also tape out 7 (or 8, 9, 10, ...) opponents in a role, you head squeeze skill may have reached to your peak.

 

[Martial D]

The peak can be seen this way.

In ground game, after your

- 3 years training, you still can't use your head squeeze to tape out your opponent.
- 10 years training, you can use your head squeeze to tape out your opponent within 10 second.
- 20 years training you can use your head squeeze to tape out your opponent within 5 second.
- 30 years training, you can ...

If you can use your head squeeze to tape out your opponents within 3 second. You can also tape out 7 (or 8, 9, 10, ...) opponents in a role, you head squeeze skill may have reached to your peak.

This is the second time I've seen you talk about tapping people out by squeezing their head. I actually JUST got back from doing bjj, the sweat hasn't even dried yet, and I think at this point I've been tapped by everything. Chokes of all sorts, jointlocks of many varieties. Never a head squeeze. Never seen anyone else tap to one either.

I will assume you must have had people tap to this before or you wouldn't bring it up. Do you have any video of yourself pulling this off for us to study? Or someone else? I ask this in full earnesty.

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

This is the second time I've seen you talk about tapping people out by squeezing their head. I actually JUST got back from doing bjj, the sweat hasn't even dried yet, and I think at this point I've been tapped by everything. Chokes of all sorts, jointlocks of many varieties. Never a head squeeze. Never seen anyone else tap to one either.

I will assume you must have had people tap to this before or you wouldn't bring it up. Do you have any video of yourself pulling this off for us to study? Or someone else? I ask this in full earnesty.

I don't have video at this moment.

You have to train the "pole/tree hanging" for a long period of time. As far as I know, there is no other way to develop this skill. You mainly use your own body weigh to develop your arm squeeze strength.

In today's world, people don't like to develop this skill. It's just

- too painful (skin and muscle slide against pole surface), and
- take too much time (you don't see any result in the 1st 3 years).

Here are some of of my students who tried to develop this skill.

 

[MI_martialist]

One only peaks when training is limited. if training is boundless, there is never a peak. Only lack of understanding and depth make one peak.

 

[Tony Dismukes]

The peak can be seen this way.

In ground game, after your

- 3 years training, you still can't use your head squeeze to tape out your opponent.
- 10 years training, you can use your head squeeze to tape out your opponent within 10 second.
- 20 years training you can use your head squeeze to tape out your opponent within 5 second.
- 30 years training, you can ...

If you can use your head squeeze to tape out your opponents within 3 second. You can also tape out 7 (or 8, 9, 10, ...) opponents in a role, you head squeeze skill may have reached to your peak.

I don't have video at this moment.

You have to train the "pole/tree hanging" for a long period of time. As far as I know, there is no other way to develop this skill. You mainly use your own body weigh to develop your arm squeeze strength.

In today's world, people don't like to develop this skill. It's just

- too painful (skin and muscle slide against pole surface), and
- take too much time (you don't see any result in the 1st 3 years).

Here are some of of my students who tried to develop this skill.

In 20+ years of studying the ground game, I have grappled with wrestlers, judoka, jiujiteiros, samboists, MMA fighters, power lifters, football players, strong man competitors, street fighters, guys who outweighed me by 100+ pounds, as well representatives of a good variety of other martial arts. I've never come even close to being tapped out by a head squeeze.

I've also watched hundreds of grappling and MMA matches. I've never seen anyone tapped out by a head squeeze.

Who have you seen tapped out from a head squeeze and under what conditions?

 

[Gerry Seymour]

In 20+ years of studying the ground game, I have grappled with wrestlers, judoka, jiujiteiros, samboists, MMA fighters, power lifters, football players, strong man competitors, street fighters, guys who outweighed me by 100+ pounds, as well representatives of a good variety of other martial arts. I've never come even close to being tapped out by a head squeeze.

I've also watched hundreds of grappling and MMA matches. I've never seen anyone tapped out by a head squeeze.

Who have you seen tapped out from a head squeeze and under what conditions?

If it takes 3 years to develop to usefulness, I can see how it wouldn't be common in any of those groups. I can think of more efficient uses of time than a 3-year technique - unless, of course, one does it for the love of the process. Love needs no efficiencies.

 

[marques]

Maybe 12... After many years of regular formal training followed by some freestyle informal training. I believe it was my best moment. Then I started training less often, so...

But I think the time is also relative to style and age. I believe we can improve technically until later in life, especially in grappling.

 

[axelb]

In the 20ish years in active training, I haven't got to any point which I would considered a peak.

My techniques improve, timing and accuracy improve, cardio is up and down, strength generally improves.
The physical aspects of training certainly peak in some way (probably late 20s) but as they slowly fade my technical skills improve and as a result make up for my lack of physical ability.

I’ve been training for about 37 years and I’m still improving.

Not my cardio, though. My cardio sucks.

I'm not sure if it was meant to be funny, but I couldn't help but laugh at the last bit
Especially as my cardio sucks also

I have never seen head squeeze as a valid technique, nor even a technique you would use as a barometer for skill training?

 

[Tony Dismukes]

If it takes 3 years to develop to usefulness, I can see how it wouldn't be common in any of those groups. I can think of more efficient uses of time than a 3-year technique - unless, of course, one does it for the love of the process. Love needs no efficiencies.

There are plenty of techniques that it took me longer than three years to become effective with. (Although this may have been due to subpar instruction or dedication on my part.) If a technique can be effective, someone, somewhere will be putting the work into perfecting it.

In any case, there are plenty of uses for the ability to squeeze really tightly, even if you can't crush someone's head. For example, such a capacity will make chokes much more effective.

 

[Tony Dismukes]

I'm not sure if it was meant to be funny, buti couldn't help but laugh at the last bit
Especially as my cardio sucks also

It's funny, but unfortunately serious as well. Over the last 6 months I've had an extended sinus infection from hell, two minor injuries, two stomach flus, bad allergies, and my asthma has been acting up big time. As a result of all the missed workouts my cardio has dropped to its lowest point in decades. I've got a lot of hard work ahead of me to build it back up.

 

[Xue Sheng]

in 45 year of this stuff I don't think I actually peaked as much as got to one peak and then saw there was another peak to go after...both in the same style and in different styles...never forget, goals change as time goes on

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

Who have you seen tapped out from a head squeeze and under what conditions?

I have done that several times myself from a side mount position (I have not seen anybody who can do it also.). First I started to use it in stand up wrestling (this is why my wrestling skill heavily depend on the head lock). I then found out it worked even better in the ground game.

In jacket wresting (or Judo Gi environment), have you ever experienced that someone grabs on your jacket and you can't break his grip no matter how hard that you may try? You may say that you just don't believe anybody on earth who can have such strong grip. You won't believe it until one day you meet someone and can experience it yourself.

The powerful head squeeze is like the monster grip. There is more brute strength there than technique. This is something that one has to feel it in person. It's difficult to explain by words.

As I have said if one doesn't train it, it won't work. The head squeeze strength didn't come from our birth. We don't use that muscle in our daily activity. There exist no machine in the modern gym that can help us to develop it. We have to develop it from ground 0. Since it's painful and time consuming, people usually don't want to develop it.

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

If it takes 3 years to develop to usefulness, I can see how it wouldn't be common in any of those groups. I can think of more efficient uses of time than a 3-year technique - unless, of course, one does it for the love of the process. Love needs no efficiencies.

After 3 years of my "pole hanging" training, one day I was so proud to tell my teacher about my effort. My teacher then said that he had spent more than 10 years to develop it. I kept my mouth shut after that. As far as I know, I may be my teacher's only student who is stupid enough to spend so much training time on a single skill.