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How bad does not sparring effect you in a real street fight situation ?
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What kind of sparring are you talking about?
Are you talking about sport style sparring, kumite, where the fighting ranges have nothing to do with where street conflicts actually begin? If you train hard-simulation street attack scenarios, then I suspect not doing that kind sparring won't hurt you at all.
But since you apparently prefer exploring the pirate smiley menu to actually making your intentions clear in posing the question, it's very difficult to know just what you're getting at.
Are you talking about sport style sparring, kumite, where the fighting ranges have nothing to do with where street conflicts actually begin? If you train hard-simulation street attack scenarios, then I suspect not doing that kind sparring won't hurt you at all.
But since you apparently prefer exploring the pirate smiley menu to actually making your intentions clear in posing the question, it's very difficult to know just what you're getting at.
Not sparring hard will not prepare you for getting hit. I know, you think you won't get hit. Thats a nice thought, but it is not a reality. If you want to be prepared for the street, you need to have some hard sparring against a variety of opponents. I don't let my students spar with people of similar heighth or weight very often. I want them to experience a bunch of different body types and skill levels. And to make it as realistic as possible, we allow almost all techniques when they spar. You will fight like to train.
IMO, fitness and kata are important, just like SD techniques and basics, but you need to spar. And not tippy-tappy point style.
IMO, fitness and kata are important, just like SD techniques and basics, but you need to spar. And not tippy-tappy point style.
To my aging mind, this type of question is symptomatic of the schizophrenic society we seem to live in today, where physical violence is something that young people often see in media but very rarely are allowed to experience (at a non-lethal level).
When I was young {and no it's not all that long ago :lol:}, people did not need sparring in their martial arts training to know what taking and giving a 'hit' in the real world felt like. We got an awful lot of that from schoolyard fights and the punishments that usually devolved from same
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It would appear that our youth are now so wrapped up in cotton wool that the only violence they encounter in daily life is shooting each other; not a lot of help in unarmed martial arts.
Sparring in any empty-hand art is a quick way of getting students to appreciate timing and distance so that their 'solo' training visualisation has something to found itself upon. Other than that it's just plain fun - or at least it was for me in my empty-hand days.
When I was young {and no it's not all that long ago :lol:}, people did not need sparring in their martial arts training to know what taking and giving a 'hit' in the real world felt like. We got an awful lot of that from schoolyard fights and the punishments that usually devolved from same
.It would appear that our youth are now so wrapped up in cotton wool that the only violence they encounter in daily life is shooting each other; not a lot of help in unarmed martial arts
.Sparring in any empty-hand art is a quick way of getting students to appreciate timing and distance so that their 'solo' training visualisation has something to found itself upon. Other than that it's just plain fun - or at least it was for me in my empty-hand days.
dnovice
Blue Belt
He might do fine. However, what is likely to happen is he will freeze up or not be be able to take hits since he's not conditioned for it.
I am a very plain and simple kind of guy. You throw something at me and I block, and hit back. Sparring has some value, and I have done it for the better part of 40 years. But, please dont tell me I have to spare to prepare for street battle. I would take any pro football player that is retired, and put him up against a high school jock and he will shine. I dont have to get hit to see what it feels like, or if I can take it. I have been hit, and dont need to reinforce it over and over again. If you are a newbie, than take your lumps, and survive the best you can, and after many years, work your strikes, do your drills with a partner for timing, and stay in shape. That is it, plain and simple.
Aniela13
Yellow Belt
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I've never been in a street fight, so my comments are coming from that perspective...I do, however, know that I put great value in my time spent sparring. When I'm doing my techniques/katas/drills, my mind works differently than it does when I'm sparring an instructor or fellow student. During techniques/etc, my mind is focused on practicing and making sure I'm doing things correctly. During sparring, I'm focused on not getting hit, and putting forth my best effort to "win" the match (we do free sparring, so there are no points, but most matches end with us knowing who would have won in a real fight!)
~Ani
~Ani
Sounds like a winner, this type of training will more then prepare you for a confrontation.
rhn_kenpo
Yellow Belt
No question that for me, practice in freestyle sparring would come in handy if I ever found myself in a 'real street fight'.
When we train techniques under real world conditions, i.e., no awareness of which attack is coming, things get a bit messy. I do my best to react quickly and respond, but my form is always less than ideal and I improvise a lot.
A bigger question for me is which is more valuable, SD techniques practiced under real world conditions, or sparring to be ready for a 'real street fight'. By far the SD training. I'm not looking to fight anyone and the odds of me squaring off against an opponent are very very low unless I know that is the only way to escape safely. Much more likely that if I'm challenged, I'll just walk/run away. But if I'm attacked, that is another story and there will be a response.
When we train techniques under real world conditions, i.e., no awareness of which attack is coming, things get a bit messy. I do my best to react quickly and respond, but my form is always less than ideal and I improvise a lot.
A bigger question for me is which is more valuable, SD techniques practiced under real world conditions, or sparring to be ready for a 'real street fight'. By far the SD training. I'm not looking to fight anyone and the odds of me squaring off against an opponent are very very low unless I know that is the only way to escape safely. Much more likely that if I'm challenged, I'll just walk/run away. But if I'm attacked, that is another story and there will be a response.
Chris Parker
Grandmaster
Hi,
I think Exile was right on when he asked what type of sparring you are refering to. Let's take this apart a bit, shall we?
Sparring can be a great benefit, or a great hindrance. On the benefit side, you get used to the pace, speed, aggression, distance, and timing af a real person in front of you trying to hit/kick/throw/choke/arm-bar you (or hit with a weapon even, eg kendo, naginatado, arnis/kali, AMOK knife skills etc). You get a feel for the way you need to respond to an opponent, and can improve your speed, reflexes, and ability to "read" an opponents body and predict what they may come in with.
But there is a downside which can actually harm your ability to defend yourself. Sparring is a controlled way to experience a free-form of training, often with particular rules and restrictions. These rules and restrictions can develop into very dangerous habits which can leave you in (unsuspectingly) open to previously unconsidered attacks.
For example, I know of a particular karate system which has as part of it's rules the requirement of the combatants to "allow" their opponent the chance to answer any strike they throw, rather than get in, hit, and get out. As I'm sure you can understand, if you develop the habit of "I hit you, you hit me", eventually, you will find someone who hits harder than you. This same system also teaches the habit that if you get knocked down, the opponent will let you get up. That doesn't really happen too often in real violent encounters.
You also have the idea of non- or light-contact sparring. To highlight this issue, and to counter those who will say "yes, but if it's real, I won't worry about the rules....", under stress, you will respond the way you have trained, and the way you believe (unconsciously) generates the most success. If you train for non-contact tournaments, and engage in non-contact tournaments, and experience success in such tournaments (even if you don't win the trophy), that will create a belief that it is powerful. Then, when you need it, you will do exactly as you have trained, and react in a non-contact manner. One of the wierdest things I have seen in the Martial Arts is a non-contact karate tournament (in France, if memory serves), in which a number of the participating groups had some bad blood between them. The tension erupted into a nearly 10 minute long brawl, in which there were almost no injuries at all. All the non-contact tournament fighters, very fast and accurate in their techniques, also trained ot pull their strikes. So, under pressure, they were very fast and accurate, and pulled their strikes. Try that when someone is attacking, and see how long it stops them.
That said, sparring in systems such as boxing, kick-boxing, muay thai, and others, can certainly help get you prepared for two of the most uncomfortable experiences for a martial artist: getting hit, and being able to give a hit. For that reason, if I am asked to recommend something to someone in order to get prepared to defend themselves in a hurry, I will often recommend boxing over pretty much anything else.
The last thing to remember in regard to sparring is that in sparring, you have no clear-cut attacker and defender, instead you have two aggressive opponents both trying to attack each other at the same time. You also have only one opponent, who is in front of you, and who will attack with recognizable, familiar techniques, rhythms, and combinations. There are constraints (referees, strikes with no grappling, grappling with no kicks, all-in unarmed [MMA] with no weapons etc). This is completely different to a real attack, where there is a clear attacker and defender, there may be more than one, they may attack from any side or direction, they may attack with anything from any range, they may or may not have a weapon, and there is no referee to stop anything. In fact those watching may be the opponents friends, watching to see if you are gaining the upper hand, and may join in if you do. Very different from sparring in most ways.
There are some training methods that cover this ground, though. Go along to most Krav Maga schools, and a lot of RBSD seminars, and you will see it. Check out Geoff Thompsons DVDs, especially Animal Day. But really, it is just another expression of traditional martial art free-expression training, randori as seen in arts like Aikido, Classical Jujutsu, and Ninjutsu schools around the world (note, not randori as understood by Judoka, nor rolling as understood by BJJ practitioners, which is essentially the same thing).
So how much does it help, and how much does it hinder? It does both, and it is up to the schools, art, instructor, and student as to whether you want it as part of your training.
I think Exile was right on when he asked what type of sparring you are refering to. Let's take this apart a bit, shall we?
Sparring can be a great benefit, or a great hindrance. On the benefit side, you get used to the pace, speed, aggression, distance, and timing af a real person in front of you trying to hit/kick/throw/choke/arm-bar you (or hit with a weapon even, eg kendo, naginatado, arnis/kali, AMOK knife skills etc). You get a feel for the way you need to respond to an opponent, and can improve your speed, reflexes, and ability to "read" an opponents body and predict what they may come in with.
But there is a downside which can actually harm your ability to defend yourself. Sparring is a controlled way to experience a free-form of training, often with particular rules and restrictions. These rules and restrictions can develop into very dangerous habits which can leave you in (unsuspectingly) open to previously unconsidered attacks.
For example, I know of a particular karate system which has as part of it's rules the requirement of the combatants to "allow" their opponent the chance to answer any strike they throw, rather than get in, hit, and get out. As I'm sure you can understand, if you develop the habit of "I hit you, you hit me", eventually, you will find someone who hits harder than you. This same system also teaches the habit that if you get knocked down, the opponent will let you get up. That doesn't really happen too often in real violent encounters.
You also have the idea of non- or light-contact sparring. To highlight this issue, and to counter those who will say "yes, but if it's real, I won't worry about the rules....", under stress, you will respond the way you have trained, and the way you believe (unconsciously) generates the most success. If you train for non-contact tournaments, and engage in non-contact tournaments, and experience success in such tournaments (even if you don't win the trophy), that will create a belief that it is powerful. Then, when you need it, you will do exactly as you have trained, and react in a non-contact manner. One of the wierdest things I have seen in the Martial Arts is a non-contact karate tournament (in France, if memory serves), in which a number of the participating groups had some bad blood between them. The tension erupted into a nearly 10 minute long brawl, in which there were almost no injuries at all. All the non-contact tournament fighters, very fast and accurate in their techniques, also trained ot pull their strikes. So, under pressure, they were very fast and accurate, and pulled their strikes. Try that when someone is attacking, and see how long it stops them.
That said, sparring in systems such as boxing, kick-boxing, muay thai, and others, can certainly help get you prepared for two of the most uncomfortable experiences for a martial artist: getting hit, and being able to give a hit. For that reason, if I am asked to recommend something to someone in order to get prepared to defend themselves in a hurry, I will often recommend boxing over pretty much anything else.
The last thing to remember in regard to sparring is that in sparring, you have no clear-cut attacker and defender, instead you have two aggressive opponents both trying to attack each other at the same time. You also have only one opponent, who is in front of you, and who will attack with recognizable, familiar techniques, rhythms, and combinations. There are constraints (referees, strikes with no grappling, grappling with no kicks, all-in unarmed [MMA] with no weapons etc). This is completely different to a real attack, where there is a clear attacker and defender, there may be more than one, they may attack from any side or direction, they may attack with anything from any range, they may or may not have a weapon, and there is no referee to stop anything. In fact those watching may be the opponents friends, watching to see if you are gaining the upper hand, and may join in if you do. Very different from sparring in most ways.
There are some training methods that cover this ground, though. Go along to most Krav Maga schools, and a lot of RBSD seminars, and you will see it. Check out Geoff Thompsons DVDs, especially Animal Day. But really, it is just another expression of traditional martial art free-expression training, randori as seen in arts like Aikido, Classical Jujutsu, and Ninjutsu schools around the world (note, not randori as understood by Judoka, nor rolling as understood by BJJ practitioners, which is essentially the same thing).
So how much does it help, and how much does it hinder? It does both, and it is up to the schools, art, instructor, and student as to whether you want it as part of your training.
Sparring is ONE method of practicing the learned techniques against an opponent. It's not the only -- and it's not the most realistic or essential. There are inherent flaws in any training method, or we'd run out of training partners real fast. Sparring can build a "duel" mentality which can serve you poorly in the real deal. But sparring does teach you to hit & get hit, to keep going when someone's coming at you, and is a way to develop the senses of rhythm and timing, and to develop a feel for some of the unpredictability of the opponent's movement.
Remember, also, that there are different ways to spar. Free sparring, where you and your partner face off and move back and forth whatever the level of force, is only one. One-steps are another form of sparring, when done properly. They're a way to focus on the principle of a movement or reaction, with control. Done with the proper focus and intensity, one-steps and similar movements or two person kata practice is another form of sparring practice. All of them play a role -- and you should do all of them.
Remember, also, that there are different ways to spar. Free sparring, where you and your partner face off and move back and forth whatever the level of force, is only one. One-steps are another form of sparring, when done properly. They're a way to focus on the principle of a movement or reaction, with control. Done with the proper focus and intensity, one-steps and similar movements or two person kata practice is another form of sparring practice. All of them play a role -- and you should do all of them.
Well said. I could never quite come up with the right way to convey just that info. Somehow it came across as fear, and that needed to be "knocked" out of me. Perhaps because I am a woman?
Because of how and where I grew up I can still tell the difference between sparing and fighting. In sparing I am Not trying to do lasting damage.
lori
kidswarrior
Senior Master
This, too, is well said. The little club where I train seems to attract people with quite a bit of real-world experience. Dueling-type sparring would actually be a step back for most, since it would reinforce an inherent safety which is not present in those real SD situations.
That doesn't mean the guys 'n gals don't go hard. To paraphrase one of our MA icons, Class doesn't start till the bruises begin to form.
Sparring allows you to see your reaction time and also gets you prepare to take a hit. Not sparring is fine but alot of people will wait until they get hit before they feel the need to defend, this is wrong a threat is when you feel damage and know how to avoid it.
Bruno@MT
Senior Master
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I understand both sides of the argument. I have been hit full contact before, during light sparring. 't was an accident. Sensei hit at exactly the same moment I stepped in to do the same. Lights nearly went out.
In those years I got hit / kicked hard by accident. I know what it feels like.
Full contact sparring would perhaps insensitize me some more, just like boxers are able to take more and stay upright.
But the downside to full contact blows to the head is that they cause brain damage. Even at amateur levels, this has been measured. Apparently this can be measured by various markers in the blood / bone marrow.
So it's not like the ability to take headshots doesn't come at a price.
I don't underestimate the usefullness of full contact sparring. And I don't mind it for wrestling and grapling. But I am not going to let myself beat in the head full contact.
In those years I got hit / kicked hard by accident. I know what it feels like.
Full contact sparring would perhaps insensitize me some more, just like boxers are able to take more and stay upright.
But the downside to full contact blows to the head is that they cause brain damage. Even at amateur levels, this has been measured. Apparently this can be measured by various markers in the blood / bone marrow.
So it's not like the ability to take headshots doesn't come at a price.
I don't underestimate the usefullness of full contact sparring. And I don't mind it for wrestling and grapling. But I am not going to let myself beat in the head full contact.
Haze
Blue Belt
You need to fight to see what fighting is really all about. It is not sparring, it is not controled kumite in the dojo. I'm not saying to go out and get in a fight but your training needs to address the realities of an attack. You need to experience what I refer to as "Controled Chaos". As close to the real deal with out full violent intent. All ranges need to be explored. Stand up to clinch to ground and everything in between
So let me ask this. If you don't think you need to spar to better prepare for a street altercation, then what do you all think you need to do?
I guess that I should get out the Wii and use it for my preparation for potential street fights. I will just throw in some training on basics and then I am prepared.
I guess that I should get out the Wii and use it for my preparation for potential street fights. I will just throw in some training on basics and then I am prepared.
That's not what anyone's suggesting, I don't think.
Sparring can be an important tool in preparing for self defense, but it's not the ONLY tool.
One/two/three steps or two person kata practice are easy examples of other tools that can be used to develop functional skills, with the proper methods of training and emphasis. Lots of people don't have that emphasis; they simply take turns "doing the technique" and never face real resistance or unexpected timing. They stay at the first stage of this sort of training, where the attack is all but static, and the "attacker" simply permits the defender to do their thing. Too often, the attackers are never even really in range or give lackadaisical grabs/holds that take no resistance to escape. Instead -- after the basic technique is understood, the attacker needs to vary the pace, actually be in range and actually put the defender in danger of being hit. Finally, the attack itself should be varied, so that the defense can be tried against a range of attacks. For example, if the initial technique is a defense against a lunge punch... it should be tried against the opposite hand, against a punch from the same side as the step (more like a jab), kicks, and anything else you can think of. Some things won't work; some will. Try it in training so that you are prepared for things that aren't quite the same.
blindsage
Master of Arts
You can talk all you want about sparring not being the same as a 'street fight', but those who spar defend themselves better on the street than those who don't, period. Now, if you want to throw in some uncontrolled 'street' defense scenarios to round out your practice as well, that's ideal, but if you aren't sparring or haven't sparred, you are missing out on skill refinement that you don't get any other way. There's a reason boxers do well for themselves on the street.
