Hooking Up on Colleges

[Rich Parsons]

This Article discusses how some colleges are creating policies against this between Professors and Students.

Thoughts?

 

[Rich Parsons]

I know when I was in school, back in the last century . The University of Michigan created a policy for dating. It should not happen, as it could be construed as sexual itimadation or harassment. So, to avoid any issues or concerns, it was recomendded not to date any of the students. Even if the student was not in any of your classes or field.

I agree that someone could be made to felt uncomfortable, yet a friend of mine who teaches part time, has been approached numerous times. Now, he is like most guys in a bar, and would take people home without a thought as long as both were interested. Yet, as an instructor, it would not be ethical in his mind. In particular since these young women were asking for a favor in return. One Young lady, said, "I'd be willing to do anything, to pass this class." Instructor,"Anything?" Student, "Yes, ANYTHING!" Instructor," Read Chapters 2 - 13 and do your homework".

Just curious of your thoughts.

 

[arnisador]

Originally posted by Rich Parsons
Yet, as an instructor, it would not be ethical in his mind.

I had a case like this, with a very explicit offer (she even volunteered to bring the wine). I was single at the time. I gave her a brief lecture on integrity instead. At the bottom of the final exam, she wrote:

INTEGRITY SUCKS!

She passed the class, incidentally.

 

[Rich Parsons]

Originally posted by arnisador
I had a case like this, with a very explicit offer (she even volunteered to bring the wine). I was single at the time. I gave her a brief lecture on integrity instead. At the bottom of the final exam, she wrote:

INTEGRITY SUCKS!

She passed the class, incidentally.

:rofl: :rofl: Yes, I know what you mean.

 

[TonyM.]

Proffessors that sleep with their students, even clearly adult ones are sorry excuses as human beings and have no right teaching anyone.

 

[Rich Parsons]

Originally posted by TonyM.
Proffessors that sleep with their students, even clearly adult ones are sorry excuses as human beings and have no right teaching anyone.

Yes with their students.

What about an instructor who is 24 with a PhD and meets get picked up by a student at the local coffee shop? They find they really like each other and then find out that (s)he might be teaching at the same university that (s)he was taking classed from. Yet in different schools and would never have a reason to either grade or take a class from he other. What would be your thoughts on this action? Should they be allowed to date?


Can you Date at work?

What if you might be later placed into a position of management over your significant other or spouse?

 

[TonyM.]

For me I think if the two people were close in age and not involved in any of the same classes dating might be OK. Having been a teacher, when you teach or are involved with anything theraputic, thinking about dating or sex is really wrong and if you can't focus on teaching or healing or whatever perhaps that person should not be in the field.

 

[Rich Parsons]

Originally posted by TonyM.
For me I think if the two people were close in age and not involved in any of the same classes dating might be OK. Having been a teacher, when you teach or are involved with anything theraputic, thinking about dating or sex is really wrong and if you can't focus on teaching or healing or whatever perhaps that person should not be in the field.

Tony,

I could not agree with you more. I was just curious where the line was drawn no big deal or point to be made. Just curious.

How about at work? Do you think people at work should date?

 

[TonyM.]

For me that's a big gray area. Dating at work usually involves consenting adults and I really don't believe a company has the right to dictate personal behavior. Then again you can end up with ridiculas situations like Bill Agee and Mary Cunninham at Bendix.

 

[hardheadjarhead]

I know some professors who don't hesitate to date students...provided the students aren't taking classes with them. It keeps it with the bounds of propriety set by the University and keeps the student from pressuring them for a good grade...and it keeps them from pressuring the student into doing anything for a good grade.

As far as dating at work, it isn't wise...but it shouldn't be discouraged necessarily provided the relationship is among peers. Complications arise during break-ups...when you have to face your ex-boyfriend/girlfriend day in and day out. It can be a load of pain.

Any boss that dates an employee under his care is asking for trouble...sexual harrassment suits, and the like. The employee is asking for a lot of resentment from other co-workers who will, regardless of lack of merit, level charges of favoritism and "brown-nosing".

The military is altogether a different situation. Adultery is still a crime punishable under the UCMJ (though it might come under review for revisement). Fraternization among officers and enlisted is strictly discouraged...and if the object of your affection is in your chain of command...TROUBLE is brewing.

There was a thread about dating in a martial arts school...and that covered that topic fairly well. I allow it in my school...with restrictions:

1. The place isn't a "meat market". Students and instructors can't use the place for a source of casual sex.

2. If the relationship ends, keep the friction out of the school.

3. No adultery.


Regards,


Steve

 

[arnisador]

Originally posted by TonyM.
For me that's a big gray area. Dating at work usually involves consenting adults and I really don't believe a company has the right to dictate personal behavior.

Well, I insist on treating my college students as the adults they are, but I do agree that it is different at a company than at a college.

 

[Phil Elmore]

When I was in college, a friend of mine knew a young woman (someone our age, a fellow classmate) who was having an affair with a music professor. My friend, unfortunately, took music lessons with the professors wife, also an instructor at the college. It fell to my friend, for complicated but valid reasons, to confirm for her instructor that the instructor's husband was, in fact, having an affair with a college student.

The student in question later had an affair with another professor at the college -- and last I knew was living with him and had been doing so for years. That professor left a wife and child for the young lady, who apparently preferred older men.

I'm not sure a policy against this business would change the harmful effects of such things taking place. It would probably just amplify the consequences.

 

[arnisador]

The Chronicle of Higher Education published an article in 2002 suggesting that this is more common in music schools. It can't be reached without a password, I believe.

From the issue dated June 7, 2002:

Music's Open Secret

Confronting the line between individual attention and harassment

By ROBIN WILSON


Austin, Tex.
In music schools, the relationship between professor and student is extraordinarily intimate. Hours are spent one on one, behind closed doors in soundproof practice rooms. Touching is often necessary, as the professor teaches students how to breathe or place their fingers on an instrument. The lines between personal and professional may blur, particularly when a young musician is dependent on a professor's approval for career success, and when the mentor grows accustomed to the feelings that admiration and power can bestow.

And that special relationship explains music schools' not-so-secret secret:

Sexual affairs between male professors and female students are common, and so is unwanted physical attention.

"The teacher and student relationship in music has virtually no comparison in other academic fields," says William Osborne, a composer and outspoken critic of classical music's treatment of women. "It is essentially a master and apprentice relationship. It is not supervised or witnessed by anybody else, and so the potential for issues involving sexual harassment is great."

The evidence presented for the claim that affairs are "common" seems to be anecdotal. Much of the article focuses on a particular case at a particular school.

 

[TheRustyOne]

Originally posted by Rich Parsons



Can you Date at work?

What if you might be later placed into a position of management over your significant other or spouse?

My sister and her ex-boyfriend Scott hooked up through their work, which was a tavern in Newark, DE called Deer Park. He was a manager, she was a server/bartender. I don't think he treated her any more special than the rest of the ladies who worked there. Thankfully they were both laid off (as well as the rest of the staff!) when the place was sold to new owners and changed. After that, their relationship got very ugly.

So, I guess it'd be okay to date at work, as long as nothing changes.

But I'm young and have yet to run into this situation first hand...



As for profs and students, if, as Rich suggested, they meet outside of the classroom and hook up there, I guess that's alright. Like Seig and Tess say, whatever goes on outside of class is fine, but don't bring it into the classroom... Sounds good enough for me.

Again, I haven't run into this, so I really don't have a solid opinion on it.

 

[Seig]

I think this sort of thing has been going on for a long time. I am strictly against it. One should never date their students, it will cause nothing but problems. In some situations where a teacher starts to teacha signifigant other after the relationship has been established, it can work as long as both parties approach it maturely and understand that the personal relationship does not interfere with the personal one or vice versa.

 

[Nightingale]

an editorial that appeared in my college paper:


Board Editorial

Calling out Classroom Courtships




This spring, faculty members at UC Berkeley are planning to vote on new rules that would ban dating between teachers and students — a policy that the faculty has recommended to the school since 1983. Teacher-student dating has often been frowned upon at Berkeley, and since late 2001, the university has been working on a written policy banning the practice.

Currently, there is no policy banning such courtships at LMU. It’s a subject upon which the administration has yet to officially address. It is known that there have been instances of LMU professors having romantic relationships with their students, despite it being a taboo practice.

While people maintain the freedom to have relationships with whomever they choose, assuming both are over 18, a relationship between a professor and a student clearly leads to conflicts of interest for both parties. For the professor, it can lead to his or her colleagues questioning their credibility. Students involved in such a relationship will likely be scrutinized by their peers and will inevitably be accused of having an “edge” over other students in the classroom, if the professor a student dates actually teaches one of their classes. Worse yet, if the relationship fails, the result could spill over to the classroom and a professor’s objectivity when grading will more than likely be tossed aside. With such controversial implications so likely to occur, it is surprising that the issue has yet to be addressed formally by the university.

This is not to say that LMU should necessarily take the same actions as the University of Michigan, the University of Iowa, Yale and UC Berkeley by banning teacher-student dating completely, but it is a subject for the administration to ponder. In the end, is such behavior ethical? While LMU’s administration doesn’t have an official position, students and faculty shouldn’t have to wonder whether or not classroom courtships are against the rules. LMU should eventually take a stance, one way or another.


http://loyolan.lmu.edu/Archives/4-23-03/Perspectives/story4.html