High or Low Kicks?

[MJS]

Many times, when the subject of kicks comes up in other areas of this forum, we have a mixed bag, with some saying they either prefer one over the other, and others saying they do both.

This is a question for the Kenpo folks out here. What do you prefer and why? For myself, I have thrown head high kicks in sparring. Of course, some have landed with success and others have been countered. As far as self defense goes, I prefer low line kicks. Chest height and lower. IMO, there are pleanty of good targets at that level, so why risk anything higher?

Thoughts?

 

[Twin Fist]

I teach high kicks for flexibility, and to develop leg strength. Plus, in sparring it is fun to kick someone in the face.

For self defense?

never kick higher than than bladder.

 

[Mark L]

I prefer to kick to open targets

.

For self defense I primarily kick to the legs and lower abdomen, success there often produces opportunities to go after "high" value targets.

 

[John Brewer]

I like to throw higher kicks, but as said above in a self defense situation I think there are some risks involved with the higher kicks. For example whats your footing like? Are you on gravel etc.?

 

[Hand Sword]

I always kept it at stomach level and down.

 

[JTKenpo]

I use low kicks as set up, as striking different height zones opens other vital areas. In a nice safe dojo and in a sparring situation I will throw high kicks all day long and I can honestly say that never have I or would I use a high kick in a real life scenario. Of course high kick and head kick are two completely different things as the old saying goes "hit em low to bring their head down then kick em in the face".

 

[Ray]

One does not preclude the other.

 

[Kosho Gakkusei]

First, let me quote a post I made on this subject a year ago. I'm trying to make a point in a humorous manner then I'll explain to make sure no one misunderstands my point.

CIRCUMSTANCES THAT ALLOW FOR KICKING HIGH TO THE HEAD

It's really quite obvious that if you offset a man's balance, cause him to double over, or drop him to the ground makes it easy to deliver a powerful finishing kick to the head. But then again it's not really a high kick then is it?? And we all know if it's not a high kick to the head it just doesn't look as cool so I will outline some circumstances that will allow you to deliver that ultimate kick to the head finish!!

1. Fight someone else who is also trying to kick high to the head. They will definitely be hanging back at the right range and you won't have to worry about those pesky throws, takedowns, or hand techniques. Just hope your kicking is better than theirs.

2. Become a world class grappler so that people will be weary of getting too close to you then surprise them with that flashy high kick finish you've been working on. They will definitely be hanging back at the right range and you won't have to worry about those pesky throws, takedowns, or hand techniques.

3. You are Chuck Norris. The mere sight of your beard will cause them to hang back at the right range and you won't have to worry about those pesky throws, takedowns, or hand techniques.

4. Fake them out. Use hand gestures. Kick them in the legs a few times so they think the high kick is gonna be to the legs. Make a funny face. Whatever it takes to keep them hanging back at the right range so you won't have to worry about those pesky throws, takedowns, or hand techniques.

5. Your opponent is drunk. This will make it easier to put them at the right range and you won't have to worry about those pesky throws, takedowns, or hand techniques. (As long as they're drunk and you're not, you should have time for your high kick to the head.)

6. Your opponents back is turned. You could get a friend to tap their shoulder, run into another room and hide behind a door, or pay some hot girl to call their name at the right time. Make sure they're at the right range and you won't have to worry about those pesky throws, takedowns, or hand techniques.

7. Use a throw, a takedown, or some pesky hand techniques to get them down to the ground then wait for them to get back up and as soon as they do--- Kick them high to the head!!! This way you won't have to worry about those pesky throws, takedowns, or hand techniques.

Thus ends my public service announcement.

It is my observation that often those that are the more skilled at delivering high kicks tend to place too much confidence in their abilities to deliver and won't recognize the inherent dangers and risks involved.

Any and all techniques (strikes, locks, throws, & kicks) require an appropriate set up to retain the element of surprise needed. No one is going to stand there and let you hit them - you must catch them off guard! It is easier to cloak your movements and avoid telegraphing low kicks and hand techniques than high kicks. Kicking techniques also require a greater range than hand techniqes. Also recovery time for high kicks is greater and thus leaves you more vunerable to a counter attack.

All this said. I would use a high kick in self defense under the right circumstances... I'd have to be convinced it was fool proof.

_Don Flatt

 

[Touch Of Death]

Proper kicking should be even lower than the bladder. Any pulling of your muscles is outside of your most effective kick use.
Sean

 

[Dr John M La Tourrette]

Many times, when the subject of kicks comes up in other areas of this forum, we have a mixed bag, with some saying they either prefer one over the other, and others saying they do both.

This is a question for the Kenpo folks out here. What do you prefer and why? For myself, I have thrown head high kicks in sparring. Of course, some have landed with success and others have been countered. As far as self defense goes, I prefer low line kicks. Chest height and lower. IMO, there are pleanty of good targets at that level, so why risk anything higher?

Thoughts?

Because they both work "if" you know proper concepts, basics, tactics and targeting.

Two reasons most people don't kick to head.

1. They can't

2. They don't know the tactics of workable head kicks

Dr. John M. La Tourrette

 

[terryl965]

Because they both work "if" you know proper concepts, basics, tactics and targeting.

Two reasons most people don't kick to head.

1. They can't

2. They don't know the tactics of workable head kicks

Dr. John M. La Tourrette

I guess I am on the other side of the spectum here, keep the kick below the waist for SD principle. For flash go as high as you can.

 

[Dr John M La Tourrette]

Proper kicking should be even lower than the bladder. Any pulling of your muscles is outside of your most effective kick use.
Sean

I'm not sure what you mean by "proper"?

It seems to me that you are stating something that works for you as the rules of kicking for everyone else.

And even though I love a bladder kick, I do love the brain stem kicks also. They all fall down when hit at a 90 degree angle.

I did write a short article on this. I'll see if I can find it.

Dr. John M. La Tourrette

 

[Dr John M La Tourrette]

I guess I am on the other side of the spectum here, keep the kick below the waist for SD principle. For flash go as high as you can.

My definition of "flash" is a high kick that don't work.

I don't know what your meaning is, so I'll go with mine until given yours.

That means it's at an incorrect angle to hit the target with "direct penetration".

If you use Zero Perception technologies then, even with head kicks, they cannot see the foot incoming.

I stick by my previous 2 reasons why most people do not kick to the head.

I suggest that if anyone wants to learn effective head kicks that they train with someone that can do effective head kicks.

I suggest tha if someone wants to learn effective head kicks that they DO NOT train with someone that disses them.

That type of flexibility in targeting the head, body and all limbs will only give the kicker more bullets for his vast arsenal.

Dr. John M. La Tourrette

 

[Dr John M La Tourrette]

For self defense?
never kick higher than than bladder.

Never?

How about if they are on the ground?

How about if they are 5 feet tall and you are 6 feet tall?

The rules of proper targeting the brain stem applies whether they are on the ground or on their feet.

For either a tall person or a short person, the same rules apply for economy of motion, proper weapon usuage, proper target penetration, proper Zero Perception, etc.

I loved the reply about "hitting the target that is open".

Dr. John M. La Tourrette
Whose Thesis to Ed Parker (1980) was on "Master's Kicking Skills". We did have some interesting conversations and "show and tell" demos. It was accepted.

 

[MJS]

Because they both work "if" you know proper concepts, basics, tactics and targeting.

Two reasons most people don't kick to head.

1. They can't

2. They don't know the tactics of workable head kicks

Dr. John M. La Tourrette

1. True.

2. One would think this would be self explainatory, but if someone isn't training for this type of kick, then yes, I'm in agreement.

 

[MJS]

My definition of "flash" is a high kick that don't work.

My definition of 'flash' is something that is not your typical kick, typical being a front, side, roundhouse. Flash IMO is the jump, spinning, 360 degree 'fancy' stuff.

 

[Kosho Gakkusei]

Because they both work "if" you know proper concepts, basics, tactics and targeting.

Two reasons most people don't kick to head.

1. They can't

This is true. For me, my front kick, round house, and hook kick can reach most people's heads. I still stand by my earlier opinion.

2. They don't know the tactics of workable head kicks

Once in a street fight, I knocked the other guy out with three kicks to the head - one to each temple and the last between the eyes. Of course, I brought him to his knees with a solid punch to the sternum first.

_Don Flatt

 

[KenpoDave]

I prefer to kick to open targets

.

For self defense I primarily kick to the legs and lower abdomen, success there often produces opportunities to go after "high" value targets.

Thank you for that. I do not "prefer" one over the other. What I prefer is to be able to hit whatever target presents itself, with the most effective, most efficient weapon available at the moment.

If I ignore high kicks in my training, then I may miss an opportunity.

 

[KenpoDave]

I suggest that if anyone wants to learn effective head kicks that they train with someone that can do effective head kicks.

I suggest tha if someone wants to learn effective head kicks that they DO NOT train with someone that disses them.

That type of flexibility in targeting the head, body and all limbs will only give the kicker more bullets for his vast arsenal.

Dr. John M. La Tourrette

I am in complete agreement.

 

[Rabu]

With the right:

Timing
Position
Posture

Kicking to any target is fine as far as I am concerned. Dr John has some good points in his posts on '90 degree' and target.

Ability as well as training will determing what types of techniques you throw. If you cant lift your leg above your waist, then your opponents head would need to come down for a 'head kick'.

Move on time, move on motion.
Position yourself at the 90 degree angle where possible, or create the angle.
Body posture needs to be appropriate for the technique being used.

Thats what I remember from my Kempo days.

Best regards,

Rob