Help choosing a martial art/cross-training martial art(s)

[AriesKai]

Hello,


I am asking for a little bit of guidance.
First, I would like to inform you that I have been in and out of practice in the Martial Arts for about 17 years now. My vision of the martial arts is primarily defense. I feel that while you should not go looking for a fight, you should also try to stay away from a fight.
There is no better martial art than the "art of the brain." Without your brain, you are dead in more regards than just one.
I believe in trying to negotiate your way out of a fight, if possible.

"Look man, I don't want to fight.."
"Look man, I don't want any trouble.."

But sometimes, there are those individuals that will foolishly disregard your inquiry about you seeking peace and will force you into a bad situation.
I have tried various things and have practically been geared towards the grappling arts. While I like grappling, I also like staying on my feet. I like weapons defense and knowing how to use whatever weapon at your disposal.
I like ending the fight as quickly as possible, without having to do too much damage; but I also understand that in THIS day's criminal, there are those that have also had training as well. Those that come out of prison and have learned how to fight in prison. To those that don't know, even a highly martial artist can go to prison and end up a thug criminal out of the years of influence that he has. This influence can also be forced, as there are many gangs. If he refuses such influences, he may face certain death as there are those in prison that prefer that life and disregard any further future.
This brings up the fact that, sometimes, you have to raise the level of force against an armed or equally trained combatant or threat. Sometimes to the degree much higher than what you normally would want to.

These are all realistic points.

Now to return to my question...
My question is... What Martial Arts do YOU suggest that I practice, and what Martial Arts do you feel that I should cross-train in?
As I said, I enjoy grappling arts WITH the "stand-up fighting." I have trained in Jujutsu for a long time, as well as kick boxing, boxing and karate.

The Martial Arts that have attracted my attention the most:
Kajukenbo
Kenpo
Ninjutsu
San Shou
Muay Thai
Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu
Judo
Haganah
Kali
Escrima

Krav Maga, to me, has been highly commercialized. This may be an excellent martial art, but I would like more insight on the practitioners as well as the masters of this art.
Perhaps the 'commercialized vision' of what I have seen is a bit skewed. If someone could help me change my mind, I would very much appreciate it.

I have come here to ask the experts, as well as anyone else that I may be able to learn from.

Thanks guys, I very much appreciate any input you may have.


Much appreciated,
Shawn


PS: Also, might I add that I have looked around for what's available to me and have researched a few dojos? Too easy of an answer. I'm looking for a reply with more content on what's relevant to everything that i've covered. Thanks.

 

[jks9199]

Deja vu

What's old is new again...

You seem to have an idea what you want in your training. I still think that you're trying to build your training on fantasy and expectations, not reality. (by a weird coincidence I was just reading some old threads, including several of yours, the other day) I suggest that perhaps you need to separate the reality of violence from martial arts if that's what you're looking for. I strongly recommend looking up Rory Miller's book and blog.

 

[AriesKai]

Deja vu

What's old is new again...

You seem to have an idea what you want in your training. I still think that you're trying to build your training on fantasy and expectations, not reality. (by a weird coincidence I was just reading some old threads, including several of yours, the other day) I suggest that perhaps you need to separate the reality of violence from martial arts if that's what you're looking for. I strongly recommend looking up Rory Miller's book and blog.

Rather than making an assumption (***=u+me), realize that I am trying to build my training on a better mindset. The reality of the subject is I have been to war, I have been to combat and I have fought and have killed men. By a weird coincidence, instead of being constructive in your reply, it only seems as though you dug up dead bones.
Martial arts, by -proper- definition, is military arts. The design of a military force is to inflict violence and prevent further violence.
I suggest that instead of making an assumption and passive aggressively insulting me, you go ahead and read the entire previous post of mine.
The best way to win a fight is by not having to fight at all. Whether you can take what YOU would call a "noob" telling you this in your oh so high status on the Martial Talk forums and go ahead and swallow your pride is entirely up to you.
What I am looking for is a list of suggestions by whoever actually has something to put into this conversation.

De ja vu, necro digging up old forum posts, this only shows the display of the actions by a troll.

Is that what you gentlemen are about on the Martial Talk forums? Or would you rather go ahead and call this even and end this little "tit for tat spat" right now, and discuss martial arts like real men?


Respectfully,
AriesKai

 

[AriesKai]

PS: I would be very mindful of your decisions, your choice of words, and how anyone else chooses to approach this matter.
As I understand, there are rules and no one is entitled to break them, no matter their "status quo" or their "time in service" on the Martial Talk forums. The rules are designed for a reason, let's follow them.
Instead of being ashamed of how immature I acted back in 2009, I am proud of the fact that I have matured and have learned from the lessons that have helped me become a better person here in 2011.

Thank you.

 

[Chris Parker]

Then demonstrate it.

Your entire first post is filled with telling people "how it is", has a very arrogant tone, is filled with fantasy, shows little to no understanding of the very topic you are lecturing on, and shows little in the way of a realistic look for any real information or answers. The last few sentences ("PS: Also, might I add that I have looked around for what's available to me and have researched a few dojos? Too easy of an answer. I'm looking for a reply with more content on what's relevant to everything that i've covered. Thanks.") show exactly the only information we could realistically offer at this point. By negating it straight away it shows that you are not interested in a real answer, and after going through this twice with you before, can you suggest why we would want to subject ourselves to that again?

And really, are you suggesting that JKS, of all people, is a troll, or unaware of the rules of the forum? He's one of the main people who enforce them....

 

[AriesKai]

Then demonstrate it.

Your entire first post is filled with telling people "how it is", has a very arrogant tone, is filled with fantasy, shows little to no understanding of the very topic you are lecturing on, and shows little in the way of a realistic look for any real information or answers. The last few sentences ("PS: Also, might I add that I have looked around for what's available to me and have researched a few dojos? Too easy of an answer. I'm looking for a reply with more content on what's relevant to everything that i've covered. Thanks.") show exactly the only information we could realistically offer at this point. By negating it straight away it shows that you are not interested in a real answer, and after going through this twice with you before, can you suggest why we would want to subject ourselves to that again?

And really, are you suggesting that JKS, of all people, is a troll, or unaware of the rules of the forum? He's one of the main people who enforce them....

Instead of arguing with you like I could do until the cows (or kangaroos, whichever you prefer) come home, I am going to first notate that I am looking for an answer of which list of martial arts could provide me with the most out of what i'm looking for.
As I have said previously, I am looking for answers by those who could possibly have something to teach; rather than digging up dead bones and basically saying everything while saying nothing at all.
My question is QUITE simple: What martial arts are recommended and what do each martial art recommended provide in regards to benefit.
I don't need a lecture by the "butter cup and the flamingo." I need guidance.
Which one of these martial arts that I have listed would probably best suit me? What do learning these martial arts offer? What can I get out of learning them?
Speak as if you were speaking to somebody with no martial arts experience. You have somebody asking simple questions, and instead of actually realistically answering these questions, you are passively aggressively making insults.
"Of all people." You say this as it's impossible for one to do something else.
Be realistic. Now unless someone has a real answer, I would appreciate it if you found something else to do with all of this time that you have. Perhaps training and continuing to hone your skills?

Good day to you.

 

[AriesKai]

What would be great, is if somebody with real martial arts experience here on this Martial Talk forums had something to teach. It appears as if only those who are completely biased on their martial art is avoiding trying to insult another person with their biased opinion, rather than accepting the fact that there is no better martial art, only preferences and levels.

Now if someone knows anything more about other martial arts than the one that they allegedly "practice" and/or "teach," I would like to hear what you have to say about that topic in specific: "Which different martial arts provide what within that specific style?"

And to those biased to their own martial art that they allegedly "practice" and "teach," I would like to hear about how you feel about your own martial art and what you feel your martial art provides.


Let's get some real answers, instead of "duhhhh..... look for mcdojos around where you live. I don't know if you have residences all over the damn country or possibly all over the world."

Thank you for your professionalism.

 

[MJS]

Admin Note

Before this thread gets out of hand, I'm posting 1 warning only! This topic has been discussed numerous times, in the threads that JKS linked. I'm not sure how many times the topic needs to be discussed! I also suggest that everyone read the forum rules specifically section 4.

To the OP: As I said, you've asked this question many times before. You seem to take shots at the members, who're offering you advice, however, it seems that its advice that you do not want to hear. If you're not happy here, leave. If you want advice for training, take whats given to you, and go get some training!

I suggest the tune of this thread changes, otherwise it will be locked and people will be banned.

MJS
MT Asst. Admin

 

[jks9199]

Wow... Still a charmer, ain't you, AriesKai?

I do apologize; I didn't look as closely as I should have when I was grabbing your earlier posts. Those really were the exact same question, on the same day...

Doesn't matter all that much. You're still asking the same question, with the same tact. With all that you know -- why are you asking? I guess maybe it's time you taught since you already know what's what. Have you read Rory Miller's work? Or even Dave Grossman's? Gavin DeBecker? Bruce Siddle?

Here's the deal:

Every martial science is an approach to solving a simple question: How do I survive being attacked? Unless you're the next step in evolution, you have the same basic tool set (two hands, two feet, etc) arranged in the same basic manner. There aren't but so many ways to use those tools efficiently and effectively. Each style is simply an approach and strategies to using those resources. A social fight or status fight is different from a predatory attack which is different from sports and different from life-or-death survival and requires different preparation. Much martial arts training is lousy preparation for predatory attack or combat. Training must be oriented to the goal, and properly structured to reach that goal.

 

[AriesKai]

Wow... Still a charmer, ain't you, AriesKai?

I do apologize; I didn't look as closely as I should have when I was grabbing your earlier posts. Those really were the exact same question, on the same day...

Doesn't matter all that much. You're still asking the same question, with the same tact. With all that you know -- why are you asking? I guess maybe it's time you taught since you already know what's what. Have you read Rory Miller's work? Or even Dave Grossman's? Gavin DeBecker? Bruce Siddle?

Here's the deal:

Every martial science is an approach to solving a simple question: How do I survive being attacked? Unless you're the next step in evolution, you have the same basic tool set (two hands, two feet, etc) arranged in the same basic manner. There aren't but so many ways to use those tools efficiently and effectively. Each style is simply an approach and strategies to using those resources. A social fight or status fight is different from a predatory attack which is different from sports and different from life-or-death survival and requires different preparation. Much martial arts training is lousy preparation for predatory attack or combat. Training must be oriented to the goal, and properly structured to reach that goal.

Alright,

JKS. THANK you. That is a little bit of what i'm looking for.
Now let me explain a little bit about myself.
I have trained in a martial art that I feel is a good martial art, but did not get the max out of what I should have because I feel that the dojos that I trained at were what you would call "commercialized." These dojos were simply mcdojos.
With all that I have learned.... Well.... I feel that there is MUCH to learn, actually.
I don't discredit one martial art from another. I feel that I have pretty much explained everything that I am looking for and am looking at a good art or system that will better suit me. I don't care if I start out as a white belt, I just want to get the most out of training and be pushed to the max.
I have not been unlucky in very many fights; but I seek to be PUSHED to the MAX.
I have not had that type of training in the martial arts world.
I feel that my training in the mcdojos involved too much wasting time and not enough getting to the point.

Now with that said, again, I am looking for an art that involves these key things...
Great "stand up" with also a focus on grappling.
Weapons defense and weapons offense.
I'm not looking for ninja throwing stars and chinese swords/nunchuku.
I am honestly looking for a martial art that trains the student or pupil to use any weapon available. Including his hands, feet, elbows, knees, head and biting if need be.
An art that involves bone/joint destruction and good form with great technique.

I have a feeling that maybe.. just maybe the field of Ninjutsu or Kajukenbo may be my cup of tea...

What do you guys think?

 

[Blindside]

If you want weapons offense and defense I would suggest one of the Filipino Martial Arts, I made a suggestion of instructors to contact in that two-year old thread. I think most martial arts have their strengths and weaknesses based on whatever they are focusing on and what their assumptions are, if you want "great stand up with a focus on grappling" you should probably find a good MMA school, I imagine you would have a wide range of options in that regard in the greater Dallas area.

 

[oaktree]

Hi Aries(are you an Aries birthsign or enjoy war/conflict type of engagements)

Reading your post it just comes off that way my apologies if I read that wrong.

The question you asked is help choosing a Martial art for you.
I think any art that teaches you patience, humility, anger control would be wonderful for you.
I will try to address your key words now:

Great "stand up" with also a focus on grappling.
Weapons defense and weapons offense.
I'm not looking for ninja throwing stars and chinese swords/nunchuku.
I am honestly looking for a martial art that trains the student or pupil to use any weapon available. Including his hands, feet, elbows, knees, head and biting if need be.
An art that involves bone/joint destruction and good form with great technique

Standup: Every art has great stand up, it is the person who can apply the stand up that makes it effective.

Grappling: every art has grappling. If you mean on the floor grappling like Brazilian Jujutsu or Judo then no not every art has that and if that is something you feel is important then by all means train in it or supplement your training with it.

Weapons defense and weapons offense: Every art teaches this as well to a degree. You may not find how to use a sword in Brazilian Jujutsu but if learning how to use a sword is important to you then learn Kendo or add that as a supplement or find an art that works with that weapon or weapons you want to learn.

I'm not looking for ninja throwing stars and chinese swords/nunchuku: Well those who practice Ninjutsu with the X-kans practice Shurikenjutsu so I guess Ninjutsu is not for you since practicing it allows better understanding of the style. Chinese swords well I guess anything with a Jian or Dao is not for you so that almost every advance training in Wushu style which also helps you understand the style better too.
Nunchuku again there goes more advance Karate styles and Korean styles.


I am honestly looking for a martial art that trains the student or pupil to use any weapon available. Including his hands, feet, elbows, knees, head and biting if need be.
Every art does this. Every art teaches their students to use everything they need to use to get home at night. A karateka or Judoka can bite you why not what rules on the street says he can not do this in a clinch? Who says a person doing Taijiquan can not bite you if he is defending his or her life such restrictions are absurd in real life and death confrontation but by all means don't go practicing biting people in your dojo hehe.

An art that involves bone/joint destruction and good form with great technique:
Every art does this or has the pontential to do this too. From Aikido to Taijiquan to Kenpo to TKD to any art really.

People on this site can only tell you to visit schools in your area because thats all you have unless you want to train outside your area because the style you are looking for is outside that reach then that is what you have to do.


If you have found an art that for you seems the most practical or what you think is a good fit then go try it. If you think Ninjutsu is the right art for you then go out and seek that.

 

[Aiki Lee]

Oaktree is right. Listen to him.

Let me ask you some questions so that I might better understand what I can do to be of assistance.

1) How far are you willing to travel for training?

2) Are you patient enough to put up with the "boring" aspects of training that are essential but not always apparent to building real skill?

3) What dojo/dojang are in your area? If we know what arts are available to you we can talk about what you would experience in them.

Many users in different threads have mentioned that what you train in is not as important as how you train or whom is instructing you. I've seen two schools that teach the same style of karate, but one focuses on point competitions and the other on SD effectiveness. They are the same art but taught totally differently.

 

[Xue Sheng]

First I have to go with Oaktree here

Now arts you might like

Police Military Sanda (Sanshou)
Systema

Now knowing that means what?
Are you willing to travel, possibly far?
Is there a teacher willing to teach you?
Could you handle the training (both hard and boring)?

You can find Systema easy enough, ask here on MT, but Police/Military Sanda...well it may be what you are looking for but finding a real live person that really knows it and is willing to teach it... that is a whole different story so looking there will likely do you no good.

Ok then Escrima that would be good too...again you need a school and a teacher.

I could go on but I am just going to repeat what has already been said in multiple posts.

The only thing I have left is why cross train? Learn one and then decide if you NEED to cross train

 

[Chris Parker]

Shawn, I'm going to leave your responses to me earlier (although exactly what you meant by "allegedly" practice or teach makes me wonder about your intent here, to say the least), and just deal with this for now.

To MJS, as you've started moderating this thread already, my apologies for the way I'm about to handle this, but every now and then things need to be said.

Alright,

JKS. THANK you. That is a little bit of what i'm looking for.
Now let me explain a little bit about myself.

Again? So these weren't enough?

http://martialtalk.com/forum/showthread.php?p=1251002#post1251002

http://martialtalk.com/forum/showthread.php?t=83130

(numerous posts here, namely #s 6, 33) http://martialtalk.com/forum/showthread.php?t=83091

And so on.

I have trained in a martial art that I feel is a good martial art, but did not get the max out of what I should have because I feel that the dojos that I trained at were what you would call "commercialized." These dojos were simply mcdojos.
With all that I have learned.... Well.... I feel that there is MUCH to learn, actually.
I don't discredit one martial art from another. I feel that I have pretty much explained everything that I am looking for and am looking at a good art or system that will better suit me. I don't care if I start out as a white belt, I just want to get the most out of training and be pushed to the max.
I have not been unlucky in very many fights; but I seek to be PUSHED to the MAX.
I have not had that type of training in the martial arts world.
I feel that my training in the mcdojos involved too much wasting time and not enough getting to the point.

Really? Hmm....

From your post in the thread "Be nice", 23rd Dec. 2009 (and, for the record, that's not long after you joined this forum, so when you talk about "all the way back in 2009!", it's really just over a year ago, not two. And you have simply repeated the same things again here):

I agree with you. When I was practicing in Japan under my old master, he was hard (not as hard as the teacher that YOU explained earlier) on me, no matter how young I was (from 5-11 years old).
When I messed up, he'd push my body, mind and spirit until I finally got it right. I shed tears, shed sweat and even blood many times; but he made me realize what types of fake teachers there were in the 'states.
I remember coming back to the states and going to a trial lesson under an instructor in Florida.. the instructor had me do 'butterfly stretches' the whole time while he flirted with my mother for over an hour and a half.
My father heard of this and let's just say that I never returned to that school. The guy seriously looked like a cross between 'Kip' from Napoleon Dynamite and 'Joe Dirt'.
After finding the right school, I began training nearly just as hard as I had it before. I've met plenty of instructors that sold black belts at their 'McDojo', and thanks to my very first instructor in Yokosuka, I never studied under any one of them.

I do note, however, that in your latest foray here, this "traditional jujitsu (sic)" that you apparently trained in for 16 years, which later changed to not having trained it for 5 years, hasn't made an appearance yet.... have you now not trained in it?

Now with that said, again, I am looking for an art that involves these key things...
Great "stand up" with also a focus on grappling.
Weapons defense and weapons offense.
I'm not looking for ninja throwing stars and chinese swords/nunchuku.
I am honestly looking for a martial art that trains the student or pupil to use any weapon available. Including his hands, feet, elbows, knees, head and biting if need be.
An art that involves bone/joint destruction and good form with great technique.

I have a feeling that maybe.. just maybe the field of Ninjutsu or Kajukenbo may be my cup of tea...

What do you guys think?

I think you've asked that a number of times, and aren't interested in any real answers.

http://martialtalk.com/forum/showthread.php?t=83091&page=3 (post 38)

http://martialtalk.com/forum/showthread.php?t=83199

http://martialtalk.com/forum/showthread.php?t=83087

http://martialtalk.com/forum/showthread.php?t=83120&page=2 (post 18)

Go back over your history, if you don't find the answers you are after, then you most likely have unrealistic expectations of what the answers should be.