Hello with some questions

[DaveManyNames]

Hi folks, I'm Dave and new here. Its good to be able to talk to experienced martial artists like this

I'm trying to find a club to stick with, I've tried judo, karate and MMA clubs in my area, but they weren't really what I had in mind. There's a Xingyi class nearby and I'm more than slightly interested. The questions I had in mind were what is Xingyi like to learn and how much is Qigong/internal energy and how much is technique?

I'm also curious about a ninjutsu nearby, with links to the Bujinkan. It seems pretty legit and not "Mcdojo-ish". would Xingyi and Ninjutsu link well?

Thoughts and opinions welcome, thanks for the help

 

[arnisador]

I'm not sure that's a good mix--they both are going to emphasize stances and footwork, especially Hsing-I (as I still write it!), which wouldn't match up at all. My experience with Hsing-I is limited to one weekend seminar and I found it fascinating.

By all means try both and stick with what grabs you! What do you want from your martial arts experience?

 

[Aiki Lee]

As ninjutsu within the x-kan organizations and their offshoots are already a combination of 9 other systems being practiced I think you will feel more comfortable with going with just one art rather than mixing them or else you may find yourself overwhelmed with opposing ideologies.

 

[frank raud]

Hi folks, I'm Dave and new here. Its good to be able to talk to experienced martial artists like this

I'm trying to find a club to stick with, I've tried judo, karate and MMA clubs in my area, but they weren't really what I had in mind. There's a Xingyi class nearby and I'm more than slightly interested. The questions I had in mind were what is Xingyi like to learn and how much is Qigong/internal energy and how much is technique?

I'm also curious about a ninjutsu nearby, with links to the Bujinkan. It seems pretty legit and not "Mcdojo-ish". would Xingyi and Ninjutsu link well?

Thoughts and opinions welcome, thanks for the help

Having tried judo and MMA, and not "being what you had in mind", should we assume you aren't interested in grappling? Having tried karate and MMA, again "not being what you had in mind", are we to assume you don't like the striking aspect, or guess that you didn't like the competition element in all three? Without knowing what you didn't like about the arts you have tried, it is kinda hard to make a suggestion or recommendation beyond "try them all, see what you like."

 

[clfsean]

Hi folks, I'm Dave and new here. Its good to be able to talk to experienced martial artists like this

I'm trying to find a club to stick with, I've tried judo, karate and MMA clubs in my area, but they weren't really what I had in mind. There's a Xingyi class nearby and I'm more than slightly interested. The questions I had in mind were what is Xingyi like to learn and how much is Qigong/internal energy and how much is technique?

I'm also curious about a ninjutsu nearby, with links to the Bujinkan. It seems pretty legit and not "Mcdojo-ish". would Xingyi and Ninjutsu link well?

Thoughts and opinions welcome, thanks for the help

Xingyi is not that hard to learn gross motor movement & application. But to truly get it, it will take a while.

Paging Xue Sheng... Paging Xue Sheng...

 

[Xue Sheng]

Xingyi is not that hard to learn gross motor movement & application. But to truly get it, it will take a while.

Paging Xue Sheng... Paging Xue Sheng...

We're sorry...Xue Sheng is not in at the moment....please leave a message at the beep........BEEP.

 

[Xue Sheng]

Hi folks, I'm Dave

Hi Dave

The questions I had in mind were what is Xingyi like to learn and how much is Qigong/internal energy and how much is technique?

What style of Xingyiquan, who is teaching it and who taught them? Those are important questions to find answers too.
It does not look like Karate, Wing Chun, Taijiquan, Baguazhang or just about any other MA you can think of. But there are some similarities with Taijiquan, Baguazhang and Wing Chun.
Xingyiquan is the most aggressive of the internal styles. I tend to look at it like this, Taijiquan is all about patience, baguazhang has patience but it is limited, Xingyiquan has no patients what-so-ever and likely you have annoyed it before you ever got there.

Taijiquan = Defense is attack and defense is defense
Baguazhang = attack is attack and defense is defense
Xingyiquan = Attack is attack and attack is defense

Basically xingyiquan training, particularly in the beginning runs between 2 extremes….extremely boring to extremely painful with not much in between. You should, if taught correctly, start with training Santi Shi which is standing is a static posture for a long time and depending on the lineage it could be a real long time. One of my Shigong’s said that if you can stand in Santi Shi for 20 minutes (Per side) you are a beginner. I have talked to a lot of people who are said to be very good and very well trained in Xingyiquan and the time varies a bit between 20 minutes and 1 hour per side all the way to not much at all once you have the structure because it is more important to learn how to move it and maintain it than simply stand in it. I currently agree with the last one most these days, it has to move and be maintained.

A gentleman I talked to from Beijing, who is a Xingyi shifu, told me he liked his students to stand 20 to 30 minutes per day per side. But his shifu stood 1 to 2 hours per day per side and made him do the same, but he also said that very few people in the world today have that much time so 20 to 30 minutes was the goal. However he felt 5 minutes is better than 0 minutes and 10 is better than 5 and 15 is better than 10…basically what you have time for do. Another gentleman in Beijing who is also a Xingyi guy (has a few books and DVDs out there) insists his students stand at least 30 minutes a day or its not xingyiquan. Another who is very into the military version thinks there is to much emphasis on static posture and moving it and maintaining it is much more important.

There are other standing postures to be trained as well. The first 3 you should be introduced to are Wuji, Zhan Zhuang and Santi Shi. The order depends on the shifu. However if you are talking Shanxi Style, all bets are off because I know little about Shanxi style beyond the fact that they do not put as much emphasis on Santi Shi and the other styles do. And their Santi is closer to 50/50 than the 70/30 or 60/40 of the other styles.
Now after that (these days mostly concurrent with that) you get into the 5 elements fist (wuxingquan); Piquan, zuanquan, bengquan, paoquan, hengquan. Then the linking form of those and then the 12 (10 if Shanxi) animals and there are weapons as well. And somewhere along the way there are qigong forms but not all teach them.

There are copious drills, that are boring and painful, there is breath training that can be tedious, there are applications; punching, kicking, qinna and Shuaijiao all which tend to be painful.
Xingyiquan is not pretty it is not gentle and it hits like a truck if done correctly. It advances hard and fast but it can angle, turn, and backup. However no matter the direction it always attacks. In Xingyiquan attack is attack and attack is defense.

This is if it is a good school with a legitimate background. If it does not have this then, IMO, it is not worth going to and it will not be Xingyiquan at all.
I have a lot of posts on MT about Xingyiquan, look for post titles "Xingyi Addict" if you are interested

Santi Shi

Zhan Zhuang

I'm also curious about a ninjutsu nearby, with links to the Bujinkan. It seems pretty legit and not "Mcdojo-ish". would Xingyi and Ninjutsu link well?

Since I know little about ninjutsu and Bujinkan I really can’t answer this beyond based on what I have seen they have two rather different approaches to a confrontation. Bujinkan impresses the hell out of me but it does not appear to be as aggressive as Xingyiquan in general. But with that said they may or may not work well together…down the road. In the beginning I do not recommend you do both at the same time because I think that would not be conducive to a good base and/or understanding of either of them.

 

[Balrog]

Hi folks, I'm Dave and new here. Its good to be able to talk to experienced martial artists like this

I'm trying to find a club to stick with, I've tried judo, karate and MMA clubs in my area, but they weren't really what I had in mind. There's a Xingyi class nearby and I'm more than slightly interested. The questions I had in mind were what is Xingyi like to learn and how much is Qigong/internal energy and how much is technique?

I'm also curious about a ninjutsu nearby, with links to the Bujinkan. It seems pretty legit and not "Mcdojo-ish". would Xingyi and Ninjutsu link well?

Thoughts and opinions welcome, thanks for the help

If I might offer a suggestion....

Take some time, sit down and seriously think about what YOU want to accomplish in your martial arts training. You might even write it down in order to help clarify your thoughts. Once you have that formulated, I think your search for a style/school will become easier, because you'll know what you are looking for and can much more easily determine whether that school will do the job for you.

Good luck in your training!

 

[DaveManyNames]

Thanks for the help so far guys, some solid advice.
Sorry, I should of been clearer in the op. It wasn't the styles I had a problem with, It was the schools themselves. Karate closed, judo was fun but I lost interest after a while and the MMA was very competition focused. I enjoyed learning there, I just couldn't see myself there in the long term.
I'm looking for a practical style with a mix of strikes, grappling and I like the idea of forms. Xingyi (Hsing-i?) sounds pretty great, thanks for the help

The Sifu's name is Matt Sergison, not sure if that means anything. The club is is south england, so I'm not sure he's well known

 

[GaryR]

Hi folks, I'm Dave and new here. Its good to be able to talk to experienced martial artists like this

I'm trying to find a club to stick with, I've tried judo, karate and MMA clubs in my area, but they weren't really what I had in mind. There's a Xingyi class nearby and I'm more than slightly interested. The questions I had in mind were what is Xingyi like to learn and how much is Qigong/internal energy and how much is technique?

I'm also curious about a ninjutsu nearby, with links to the Bujinkan. It seems pretty legit and not "Mcdojo-ish". would Xingyi and Ninjutsu link well?

Thoughts and opinions welcome, thanks for the help

Xingyi is among the best stand-up arts, and hard to find. If the instructor is half-decent, go with that. The five fists take an afternoon to learn and a lifetime to master so-to-speak, there are also short animal forms, and two-man drills.

Internal energy / Qi is a myth and a metaphor at best. Don't worry about it. It's all about mechanics and physics. Xingyi will give you solid mechanics, you just have to learn to relax, as beginners tend to make it more "external" i.e. stiff, and not connected.

I would not mix with ninjutsu, mechanics are not a match, and less is more.

Good luck!

G

 

[blindsage]

I defer to Xue on all things Xingyi, but I think the gist of his post says it all- boring and painful. That's it. If you stick with it with a good teacher you will get skill, but most won't.

 

[Xue Sheng]

I defer to Xue on all things Xingyi, but I think the gist of his post says it all- boring and painful. That's it. If you stick with it with a good teacher you will get skill, but most won't.

Exactly.

Xingyi is not pretty, it is not flashy, it is aggressive, and for fighting. It is not the martial arts dance you see a lot these days and it not complicated (at least externally) . But you stick with it and you can fight and fight hard.

And I have said all of this here before but what the heck I'm old and I am going to claim forgetfulness and say it again

In my opinion, the attitude of Xingyi can be summed up like this "I'm going to hit you....hard"

But getting there takes a lot of dedication because it will be painful and boring getting there for many and because of this they quit.

One of my Xingyi teachers made a statement that also shows the attitude of Xingyiquan during santi shi training one afternoon.

He said "If you have any joint pain you need to let me know and I will adjust your stance, but if you have muscle pain...shut up and stand, I don't want to hear it"