Have you ever tried building up a group?

[geezer]

Are you part of a large, well-established WC/VT/WT school or group, or are you a member, or maybe even a leader of a small group that is struggling to keep going?

Locally, I'm in two small groups, one in each of the styles I practice: NVTO Ving Tsun and DTE Eskrima. Although, each group is affiliated with larger organizations, our local groups are a small gang of dedicated students. We are all in it for "the long haul" but even so, there is a slow natural attrition rate as folks move on in life. That means the rest of us have to recruit new members if we want to have training partners or have a base to bring in our own instructors from out of town for advanced training. Personally, I'm no salesman. Same for the other guys I work with. We'd far rather just train. But you know the saying, "if you don't grow, you die". Any thoughts?

 

[yak sao]

Been beating that same horse for more years than I care to remember.
We started out as a small group of 5 training out of my garage. It blossomed to a full fledged school at one time with a good 30 plus members.
The group split. People dropped out, moved away or simply moved on.
Now we're back in the same old garage with 3 of the original 5, plus an additional 10 or 12.
For the record, I'm no salesman either.

 

[Domino]

We have a rotation of new students which can spoil things sometimes.
Good on you for keeping it moving !!

 

[Thesemindz]

I've been trying to grow a kenpo training group here locally for a while. I have a lot of people say they'll totally be there and then never show up. I have some students come and go, and some only come a few times, and some who tell me every week they want to be there but then never are. It's hard. Right now I have one semi-regular student, three or four others who show up every once in a while, and another half dozen or so who keep telling me they really want to come out. You have to keep training. My philosophy is that I just need to keep getting better. The better I am at karate, the more people will want to do karate with me. It's a challenge though. It's hard to get motivated when you're the only person showing up to class. I was offering one class on monday afternoons and everyone was begging me to start an evening class, so I added a tuesday night class and then none of those people showed up. So now I'm looking at adding a morning class on another day, or diversifying and adding ground fighting or sparring classes. Schedules are hard. Everyone has something they need to do all the time. Just keep pushing and training. Hopefully others will come and join you. If they don't, karate is it's own reward.


-Rob

 

[yak sao]

I never hear anyone tell me they have no interest in learning MA, in fact, just the oppositte. They tell me they would love to do it but____________(fill in the blank)Everyone is busy. That's just a fact of life in the 21st century. What it boils down to is whether or not they are willing to make a commitment to it.
I know there are a lot of things vying for our attention these days, but was it really any different 200 years ago? Back then, they had to spend a lot more time and energy doing things that we take for granted these days. They may not have had much more time to train than we do now, they just didn't have ro worry about shutting off the TV or tearing away from the computer.

 

[Xue Sheng]

Are you part of a large, well-established WC/VT/WT school or group, or are you a member, or maybe even a leader of a small group that is struggling to keep going?

Locally, I'm in two small groups, one in each of the styles I practice: NVTO Ving Tsun and DTE Eskrima. Although, each group is affiliated with larger organizations, our local groups are a small gang of dedicated students. We are all in it for "the long haul" but even so, there is a slow natural attrition rate as folks move on in life. That means the rest of us have to recruit new members if we want to have training partners or have a base to bring in our own instructors from out of town for advanced training. Personally, I'm no salesman. Same for the other guys I work with. We'd far rather just train. But you know the saying, "if you don't grow, you die". Any thoughts?

You forgot a small well-established WC/VT/WT school. That is what my sifu has and he has said many times if it was not for his other business and his love of Wing Chun that his school would have been closed long ago. He is no salesaman either, nor am I, but I tend to think, at least in my area, that it will no matter how much you try and sell it there are only a few people really interested in "training" it. SUre they want to all be Ip Man (form teh movie) or Bruce Lee, but when it comes right down to it they don't have time or don't want spend the time or don't want to do the hard work needed to get there.

I never hear anyone tell me they have no interest in learning MA, in fact, just the oppositte. They tell me they would love to do it but____________(fill in the blank)Everyone is busy.

This is what I got when trying to form a Xingyiquan group recently. A lot of YEAH COOL, I'm There...followed by well, I'm busy or my schedule does not allow, or (and I am betting this is part of the problem with WIng Chun too) Hey that looks hard and painful...

 

[Eric_H]

Been part of a school that struggled with membership issues, been owner of two separate clubs that struggled with membership issues. Being a Sifu/Sensei/Coach/Whatever is a tough gig.

There's no easy solution to it, just have to keep plugging away, trying new marketing angles and getting your name out in the community.

 

[KamonGuy2]

Its sad to see that. I love wing chun and Im always interested with what other wing chun schools develop into their training. The key to attracting new students is actually not to 'over try'. What I mean by this is that there is a kickboxing school that I know of in our local area that almost bully people into joining up. They approach people in the high street and get them to 'sign up' by filling out forms etc. Its far too aggressive and in my opinion a bit thuggish.

Put up some flyers, make deals with your local chinese takeaways to promote your business (they tend to have a soft spot for wing chun).

You would be surprised where your new students will come from.

 

[Jox]

Hi guys...

I live in a small town. I have a small group 3-4 students.
Students come and go. Some stays and practice for awhile and later go.
Some stay longer time and then just disappear without saying goodbye.
Some have interest, but do not have time etc, etc...

It looks that only one who persist, am I.
I keep going forward no matter what, ups and downs...

In my opinion, four primary prerequisites for every martial artist are needed:

1.Time
2.Dedication
3.Practice
4.Discipline

Only a few are willing to keep them through longer period of time...


Jox

 

[Blindside]

Not WC, but I've helped build two Kali training groups. The second group I started three years ago, at the end of the first year I had four guys, at the end of the second I had 10, now, at the end of the third I have 4 guys again. It is a good group, but I would like to continue to expand. One of the reasons for the decrease was me shutting down entry last year so I could focus on the group I had, knowing that I would face attrition, unfortunately I got a little more than I bargained for. I will start advertising again after the new year.

No other advise than to keep on going on, I don't advertise except for Craigslist and am listed on a couple on online advertising sites like dojolocater.com. I did initial advertising by throwing a couple of cheap seminars, that got me the first couple of guys, and I knew I was targeting already experienced guys by aiming my seminars at other martial arts schools. That worked fairly well, since then it has been half word of mouth and half Craigslist.

 

[Thesemindz]

I've had a great response from craigslist. I don't use it now because I'm teaching out of my home and I don't want any weirdo off the internet knowing where I live and seeing my big screen tv. But in the past when I used craigslist I got an immediate and impressive number of inquiries.


-Rob

 

[geezer]

I've had a great response from craigslist. I don't use it now because I'm teaching out of my home and I don't want any weirdo off the internet knowing where I live and seeing my big screen tv. But in the past when I used craigslist I got an immediate and impressive number of inquiries. -Rob

I'll give it a try. I teach at a city park and intermittently offer classes at a Y, and I don't have an especially big TV, so I'm not worried!

--but to get back to the OP, ... the thing that gets me is that I know some really, really great guys out there also teaching MAs in a non-commercial way, and a lot of them have trouble building up groups. I know a couple of FMA stylists who are truly at master level, and they only have a few students. And on the other hand there are those strip-mall McDojos. Go figure.

 

[jks9199]

But how many of the Craigslist inquiries led to anything? And how many were just nut jobs? In short -- was the signal to noise ratio acceptable?

 

[Blindside]

But how many of the Craigslist inquiries led to anything? And how many were just nut jobs? In short -- was the signal to noise ratio acceptable?

I haven't run into anyone who I would classify as a "nut job," the whackiest guy I've met is one of my students now. I'm really not sure why the signal/noise ratio would be different than what you would get advertising in the yellow pages.

 

[Eric_H]

RE: Craig's list

I didn't have much success with it in Phoenix, and neither has my sihing that runs a club. However, neither of us had the photos/artwork to make a decent looking ad. If you've got some nice graphics or videos you can use, it's usually a good return on time investment. I think there are sites (i want to say thumbtack?) that specialize in making good looking craig's list ads for a fee. But I never tried them.

 

[Vajramusti]

I understand the need for some advertisement but each person's problem can have unique aspects. I have a website:
www.tempewingchun.com

Other than that I do not advertise. Being somewhat ignorant of pc skills- I don't do Craig's list, Facebook, Link-ins.
I have had a group going since I came back to Arizona to Tempe from New mexico in 1985. I used to live in Tucson.

I am not interested in a large volume of students. I turn down a lot of inquiries... because real short termers waste their time and mine.
Just a fact- not trying to be arrogant.

About a third of the students are determined to learn wingchun gung fu. Another third zig zag some-because of demands of work and/or family.
Another third are very erratic and get replaced. That is the rough picture.

 

[geezer]

@Vajramusti Joy, the couple of times I've visited your classes, I have to say, I think you have a nearly ideal set up. You have a fully outfitted garage-kwoon, cluttered with all kinds of cool martial arts stuff and an enthusiastic group of students absolutely filling the place. Everybody was training seriously and there was a really positive vibe. That's how it's supposed to be done!

 

[Blindside]

RE: Craig's list

I didn't have much success with it in Phoenix, and neither has my sihing that runs a club. However, neither of us had the photos/artwork to make a decent looking ad. If you've got some nice graphics or videos you can use, it's usually a good return on time investment. I think there are sites (i want to say thumbtack?) that specialize in making good looking craig's list ads for a fee. But I never tried them.

I had no idea about enhanced Craigslist ads, I will have to look into that, thanks!

 

[ilhe4e12345]

my area is similar to this. Its plagued by "karate schools" or teachers who advertise that they know what theya re doing but then you find out their teaching style they dont hold out, get boring, not make it fun, or teach the same general garbage. Now please im not insulting karate or anything like that...im refering to the teachers and how they teach, or how they act. In my area the teachers i have spoken too all have a "i am better than you" way of thinking. The "mcdojo's" all over the place seem to pull in a lot of children which is great to teach kids self defense and get them into it BUT then they just grow up. They lose interest and push away from it. My younger brother is guilty of this...he loved martial arts, was a belt away from black belt TSD years ago and has been taking classes with me in kung fu but i have noticed his additude towards it just isnt the same. He is still "interested" in martial arts, but i dont think enough to train. That and with working all the time and growing up its hard to make room to train.....

I have made sacrifices just so i can train 1 day a week. I WOULD LOVE TO TRAIN MORE but due to work i cannot. Its so different now then 200+ years ago. The real world takes control and everyone has responsibilites. I work with a guy who is back taking TSD after studying with my Sifu for years and he said the only reason he is so that he can finish what he started before he got with my Sifu. We have talked about how he would love to come back and train but barely has time to train with his current teacher and reaching his goal of instructor in his current art. He doesnt have the time currently to train and i understand as do a lot of people not have the time.

Also keep in mind the economy has taken a big hit in the past years...and now things like MA and training arent within the relm of spending for a lot of people. Some schools are 100+ dollars a month and while they may offer a great program or great training but its just not in the budget. A good friend of mine had to stop training for 8 months and recently just started back up in training WC with his local teacher who he trained with for 10+ years becuase he was jobless for awhile and had to make a sacrifice. Its tuff and in the end the true loves of MA will find a way...we always do....

Its great to see guys and girls like you all out there trying to keep the arts alive, even if its only 4 or 5 people thats all it takes. Some people might need time to figure out what they want out of life....i personally wish i could train more but its just not in the cards right now...

Happy Training

 

[Eric_H]

an enthusiastic group of students absolutely filling the place. Everybody was training seriously and there was a really positive vibe. That's how it's supposed to be done!

Geezer,

That's one thing I can agree on - though Joy's school and mine rarely agree on what constitutes "good wing chun," most every one of his students I've met over the years has been a person of good attitude and character. I'd say that reflects pretty well on their Sifu.