Have the Brits gone as crazy as the Yanks?

[tellner]

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/story/0,,2047706,00.html

One surveillance camera for every fourteen people. Prisoners stuffed into storage containers on ships (I guess Australia is full). Burglary and sexual assault not counted as crimes by government edict, but defend yourself and you're toast. The highest alcoholism and violent crime rates in Europe.

And now this.

What happened? Was Thatcher your Caligula and Blair your Nero?

 

[Tez3]

Ah the Guardian again, it's so left wing that's it's not actually allowed in Officers' messes in the Army lol!
Nowhere have prisoners been put into storage containers though it's a novel idea!

 

[terryl965]

They are criminals so what if they are in Containers, if you can't do the time do not do the crime.

Sorry I just do not understand treating criminals like they are at a resort.

As far as the Brits being crazy and the Yanks Yes we are that is what is so great.

 

[tellner]

Actually, Tez, they are being put in containers. The Home Secretary has announced it...

http://observer.guardian.co.uk/uk_news/story/0,,2036774,00.html

As for "so left wing", well, if the standard for mainstream is "Murdoch" then maybe. But the facts seem to be in order and straight from the government's own official statements. The cameras, the official policy of handling sexual assaults, simple assault and burglary as "not crimes", your alcoholism and binge-drinking rates are all simple matters of record. Saying "I don't like the newspaper that reported it, so it isn't true" is not rational by any normal definition of the word.

And Terry, why don't we just bring back the lash, torture, the hot box and all while we're at it? After all, they're prisoners, so they deserve to be treated worse than animals. Will you say the same thing when it's someone you care about who "made a few mistakes" or yourself when you get caught up in the machine?

 

[terryl965]

And Terry, why don't we just bring back the lash, torture, the hot box and all while we're at it? After all, they're prisoners, so they deserve to be treated worse than animals. Will you say the same thing when it's someone you care about who "made a few mistakes" or yourself when you get caught up in the machine?

Tellner if I ever do anything stupid enought o be put behind bars then I deserve to treated as a criminal and not be giving cable TV and recreation time, yes bring back the chain gangs maybe it will tell potential criminals to beware or else right now it is a vacation for most of them when they are behind bars.

 

[Sukerkin]

An interesting read, that article. I think perhaps it's more a "where could we end up?" piece than a "where we are" tho'.

The fundamental problems we face are those of a reduction in respect of people for their fellows (especially amongst the young), a catastrophic loss of faith in our government (regardless of political colour) and an unrestrained rise in unjustified "I know my rights" legalism.

Of these, the most important is the first. When people don't think of others as having equal importance to themselves or consider what their actions will mean for those around them then everything else falters too.

Part of this loss of respect is the past couple of generations have grown up without having a healthy fear of authority knocked into them at an early age. I use the word 'fear' deliberately because, when you are very young, 'repect' is an alien concept. I did not 'behave' myself when I was a child because I 'respected' my father (in the adult meaning of the term) but because I feared the punishments that would be the consequences of my transgressions.

When the children rule the houses, then the crumbling of stable society is not far away and that's what we're seeing now. They've grown up without the internal checks and balances that most of we older generations take for granted and have been given no reason to fear for consequences.

Cossetted from any harm whilst growing on the one hand and desensitised to violence by the entertainment media on the other, it's little wonder that a significant percentage of them are indistiguishable from Lord of the Flies savages.

Even if action is taken now, it will take another couple of generations to get back to where we were when I was a kid and the spread of lawless behaviour will only get worse before it gets better.

The problem with that is that it encourages a totalitarian mindset in those that govern, as they can only see the application of draconinan security measures as the answer to the problem they created by restricting reasonable discipline in the first place!

Ah, the glories of Liberal Democracy ... are sometimes hard to see against the glaring light of self-serving expediency .

 

[Touch Of Death]

They are criminals so what if they are in Containers, if you can't do the time do not do the crime.

Sorry I just do not understand treating criminals like they are at a resort.

As far as the Brits being crazy and the Yanks Yes we are that is what is so great.

They will lash out, causing you to need more staff, they have salaries, et cetera.
sean

 

[Touch Of Death]

And Terry, why don't we just bring back the lash, torture, the hot box and all while we're at it? After all, they're prisoners, so they deserve to be treated worse than animals. Will you say the same thing when it's someone you care about who "made a few mistakes" or yourself when you get caught up in the machine?

Tellner if I ever do anything stupid enought o be put behind bars then I deserve to treated as a criminal and not be giving cable TV and recreation time, yes bring back the chain gangs maybe it will tell potential criminals to beware or else right now it is a vacation for most of them when they are behind bars.

Sounds expensive.
Sean

 

[Tez3]

Actually, Tez, they are being put in containers. The Home Secretary has announced it...

http://observer.guardian.co.uk/uk_news/story/0,,2036774,00.html

As for "so left wing", well, if the standard for mainstream is "Murdoch" then maybe. But the facts seem to be in order and straight from the government's own official statements. The cameras, the official policy of handling sexual assaults, simple assault and burglary as "not crimes", your alcoholism and binge-drinking rates are all simple matters of record. Saying "I don't like the newspaper that reported it, so it isn't true" is not rational by any normal definition of the word.

And Terry, why don't we just bring back the lash, torture, the hot box and all while we're at it? After all, they're prisoners, so they deserve to be treated worse than animals. Will you say the same thing when it's someone you care about who "made a few mistakes" or yourself when you get caught up in the machine?

Who said I don't like the newspaper? I'm a Guardian reader! That doesn't mean to say I believe everything I read though especially if the Government has announced it, they are proven liars! I prefer to believe the prison officers among whom I have several friends and have dealings with professionally.

 

[Tez3]

Oh and by the way I also read The Times, The Daily Mail and The Independant and of course The Jewish Chronicle and The Racing Post. If anyone leaves them lying around I also read the Sun and The Mirror but never ever The Star!

 

[Shaderon]

An interesting read, that article. I think perhaps it's more a "where could we end up?" piece than a "where we are" tho'.

Ever seen "Minority Report"?

Oh and by the way I also read The Times, The Daily Mail and The Independant and of course The Jewish Chronicle and The Racing Post. If anyone leaves them lying around I also read the Sun and The Mirror but never ever The Star!

Nice bibliography Tez! Personally I prefered The Dandy, The Beano and Whizzer and Chips, pity we don't get them anymore at home, they made much more sense than your comics ;-)

Seriously I like the Times, and I agree with you that ANY journalist out there will take a rumour and print it as true, I know they can get sued for it.... and they do... but isn't it worth it for them for sale of newspapers?

They might PLAN to put prisoners in containers... but if you see the state of some of the flats in the city center near here, a container might be an improvement. Planning is a long way from doing though.