Bullshidog
White Belt
I watched Lancelot and Guinevere starring Cornel Wilde yesterday and i the first major battle show....... The armies of King Arthur led by Cornel Wilde as Lancelot hid their entire army in the forest behind trees and bushes covered in cut down leaves..... By the time they attacked they had fully placed their troops n strategic positions and the first few barrages of arrows had thron the enemy barbarians in panick.
By the 6th volley, it as over for the barbarians because cavalry suddenly came out of nowhere to attack the aggravated and impatient barbarians as they attempted to follow the direction of the arrows. Followed by infantry suddenly coming from concealments and holding of the barbarians eyeing for the lines of archers.
One more hidden formation of cavalry charged and hit the barbarians from the side. The barbarian army gets slaughtered in the first contact and a lot of the army flees in terror.
The final battle of the movie has Lancelot attack Morderd's army. The battle starts out with the cavalry attacking each other. Lancelot's troops win the cavalry skirmish due to being more armored and having lances over Morded's spears which were at the size for hunting........
What surprised me most was rather than chasing Morded's army in the manner people always criticize Medieval movies or showing chaotic combat, Lancelot instead orders his archers to shoot down a lot of Mordred's retreating cavalry. Mordred tries to react by sendig archers to counter attack. But Lancelot sends n heavy infantry with shields in front of the archers. They form a whole turtle from top too bottom out of shields and ere basically immune to the arrows of Mordred's archers. By sending the infantry in front, Lancelot blocked the locaton of his archers rom Mordred and Mordred could not accurately aim to hurt Lancelot's archers. IN addition Lancelot's archers had placed in stakes, some wooden blocks including a few palisades, etc prior to the battle and these seem to protect them from the arrows esp when combined with the turtle of sword and shield infantry in a phalanx.
Eventually Lancelot orders his infantry to advance like a turtle n the phalanx and they get unharmed while marching on from range attacks. They meet Mordred's infantry and clash while Lancelot sends in his cavalry to attack the archers and then hit the infantry from behind. He then chases the remnants o Mordred's army including the heavily battered cavalry unit with his still fresh knights and demolishes them killing Mordred in the process.
This is one example but I seen too many to list. From the opening battle of Lion In the Winter where a cavalry charge was done against a marching square block of troops with shields and long spears that results in a clash where the spear and shield troops thought victory was guaranteed........ Until suddenly out of nowhere they get hit by an unseen cavalry formation that suddenly comes from a hill at their unprotected backs and thus get slaughtered!!!!! Dragonheart's penultimate battle was won by luring knights into a forest where suddenly they found themselves surrounded by the newly trained spearmen by Bowen and most of them get squashed by a pincer movement while also getting shot by archers Bowen placed on top of trees prior to the battle with only the evil antagonist king escaping with a few bodyguards. The 1950s Ivanhoe basically showed the Normans shieldwalls trying to attack Robin Hood's archers but forced back into a retreat into their castle as nonstop barrage of arrows became overwhelming in a panick despite suffering no casualties. Because they were far too few in comparison to the troops Robin Hood had gathered. Some obscure movie about the Mongol invasion of Europe ith Anita Ekerg as top billing showed European armies attempting to fight in combined arms and square blocks with organization even though the Mongol army slaughtered them in a counter attack during the siege right after the Europeans breached the fortress walls by creating an opening with Siege equipment and were sending troops to enter in. The Europeans ultimately won by using Mongol overconfidence and luring them near a lake where they used scare tactics like burning the nearby woods to cause a panick that led to lots of the Mongol army to drown to death or get burned alive followed by a cavalry counterattack to finish of the remnants.
Not to mention Alexander Nevsky showed the Teutons fighting like the Romans with advance stuff like rotating worn troops with fresh ones and surprise ambushes at marching Russians, thrown javelin volleys, etc The Russians won because they themselves were using walls of pike blocks and after prolonged fighting they attacked from the sides with fresh reserve. The Teuton army wasn't even destroyed from the Russian flanking movement but because they were pushed back to a part of the frozen river that had thin ice surface (which was a calculated move by Lord Nevsky planned days before the battle).
So I really have to ask if all the criticism towards Hollywood in general about showing Medieval Warfare as chaotic melees and never showing organized battles like square formations on he march or more complex use of the environment is really unwarranted? Considering in Robin an Marian the Sherrif refused to enter the forest to fight Sean Connery as Robin Hood because he felt they'd be easy pickings for Robin's archers and in another Robin Hood move Errol Flynn had to sneak into the castle disguised as priests because the Men of Sherwood lacked the siege equipment needed to take the capitol (as well as to show King Richard who accompanied the attack was alive so most defenders wouldn't fight the Sherwood archers)............
Are the makers of cinema far more knowledgeable about accurate tactics like Pikemen combined with crossbowmen and archers internet circlejerk give them credit for? Not just Hollywood but it seems esp in European cinema like the Cornel Wilde Lancelot movie, they seem aware that Medieval Warfare was not primarily individualistic fighting despite all the criticism frequently posted online esp at reddit!
I mean the fact Alexander Nevsky shows the Teutons dong Roman era stuff like rotating fighting troops with fresh troops and Robin Hood Prince of Thieves (the Kevin Costner one) showed the Sheriff actually wiping out the Sherwood fortress in the only major battle shown onscreen by combining disorganized barbarian mercenaries with organized infantry tactics including appropriate use of fire to burn down the woods............
Why is there so much angry rants online always bashing cinema for portraying Medieval warfare as individual duels and chaotic? It seems the opposite esp when you see organized warfare and complex tactics in forgotten titles like Robin and Marian!
By the 6th volley, it as over for the barbarians because cavalry suddenly came out of nowhere to attack the aggravated and impatient barbarians as they attempted to follow the direction of the arrows. Followed by infantry suddenly coming from concealments and holding of the barbarians eyeing for the lines of archers.
One more hidden formation of cavalry charged and hit the barbarians from the side. The barbarian army gets slaughtered in the first contact and a lot of the army flees in terror.
The final battle of the movie has Lancelot attack Morderd's army. The battle starts out with the cavalry attacking each other. Lancelot's troops win the cavalry skirmish due to being more armored and having lances over Morded's spears which were at the size for hunting........
What surprised me most was rather than chasing Morded's army in the manner people always criticize Medieval movies or showing chaotic combat, Lancelot instead orders his archers to shoot down a lot of Mordred's retreating cavalry. Mordred tries to react by sendig archers to counter attack. But Lancelot sends n heavy infantry with shields in front of the archers. They form a whole turtle from top too bottom out of shields and ere basically immune to the arrows of Mordred's archers. By sending the infantry in front, Lancelot blocked the locaton of his archers rom Mordred and Mordred could not accurately aim to hurt Lancelot's archers. IN addition Lancelot's archers had placed in stakes, some wooden blocks including a few palisades, etc prior to the battle and these seem to protect them from the arrows esp when combined with the turtle of sword and shield infantry in a phalanx.
Eventually Lancelot orders his infantry to advance like a turtle n the phalanx and they get unharmed while marching on from range attacks. They meet Mordred's infantry and clash while Lancelot sends in his cavalry to attack the archers and then hit the infantry from behind. He then chases the remnants o Mordred's army including the heavily battered cavalry unit with his still fresh knights and demolishes them killing Mordred in the process.
This is one example but I seen too many to list. From the opening battle of Lion In the Winter where a cavalry charge was done against a marching square block of troops with shields and long spears that results in a clash where the spear and shield troops thought victory was guaranteed........ Until suddenly out of nowhere they get hit by an unseen cavalry formation that suddenly comes from a hill at their unprotected backs and thus get slaughtered!!!!! Dragonheart's penultimate battle was won by luring knights into a forest where suddenly they found themselves surrounded by the newly trained spearmen by Bowen and most of them get squashed by a pincer movement while also getting shot by archers Bowen placed on top of trees prior to the battle with only the evil antagonist king escaping with a few bodyguards. The 1950s Ivanhoe basically showed the Normans shieldwalls trying to attack Robin Hood's archers but forced back into a retreat into their castle as nonstop barrage of arrows became overwhelming in a panick despite suffering no casualties. Because they were far too few in comparison to the troops Robin Hood had gathered. Some obscure movie about the Mongol invasion of Europe ith Anita Ekerg as top billing showed European armies attempting to fight in combined arms and square blocks with organization even though the Mongol army slaughtered them in a counter attack during the siege right after the Europeans breached the fortress walls by creating an opening with Siege equipment and were sending troops to enter in. The Europeans ultimately won by using Mongol overconfidence and luring them near a lake where they used scare tactics like burning the nearby woods to cause a panick that led to lots of the Mongol army to drown to death or get burned alive followed by a cavalry counterattack to finish of the remnants.
Not to mention Alexander Nevsky showed the Teutons fighting like the Romans with advance stuff like rotating worn troops with fresh ones and surprise ambushes at marching Russians, thrown javelin volleys, etc The Russians won because they themselves were using walls of pike blocks and after prolonged fighting they attacked from the sides with fresh reserve. The Teuton army wasn't even destroyed from the Russian flanking movement but because they were pushed back to a part of the frozen river that had thin ice surface (which was a calculated move by Lord Nevsky planned days before the battle).
So I really have to ask if all the criticism towards Hollywood in general about showing Medieval Warfare as chaotic melees and never showing organized battles like square formations on he march or more complex use of the environment is really unwarranted? Considering in Robin an Marian the Sherrif refused to enter the forest to fight Sean Connery as Robin Hood because he felt they'd be easy pickings for Robin's archers and in another Robin Hood move Errol Flynn had to sneak into the castle disguised as priests because the Men of Sherwood lacked the siege equipment needed to take the capitol (as well as to show King Richard who accompanied the attack was alive so most defenders wouldn't fight the Sherwood archers)............
Are the makers of cinema far more knowledgeable about accurate tactics like Pikemen combined with crossbowmen and archers internet circlejerk give them credit for? Not just Hollywood but it seems esp in European cinema like the Cornel Wilde Lancelot movie, they seem aware that Medieval Warfare was not primarily individualistic fighting despite all the criticism frequently posted online esp at reddit!
I mean the fact Alexander Nevsky shows the Teutons dong Roman era stuff like rotating fighting troops with fresh troops and Robin Hood Prince of Thieves (the Kevin Costner one) showed the Sheriff actually wiping out the Sherwood fortress in the only major battle shown onscreen by combining disorganized barbarian mercenaries with organized infantry tactics including appropriate use of fire to burn down the woods............
Why is there so much angry rants online always bashing cinema for portraying Medieval warfare as individual duels and chaotic? It seems the opposite esp when you see organized warfare and complex tactics in forgotten titles like Robin and Marian!
