Ground work

[Kreth]

I personally wouldn't want to train in a martial art where the predominant philosophy was "This worked 900 years ago, it will work today."

Gee, why do we have friction in this area? :idunno:

 

[MJS]

Gee, why do we have friction in this area? :idunno:

*looks around, smelling the air, trying to get a handle on where that burning smell is coming from.*:flame:

LOL, all kidding aside, and in hopes to keep this somewhat civil here, , I have a question. Has or have people in the Bujinkan made any changes to the the art or have things pretty much stayed the same? Reading some other forums, I've seen a few Bujinkan folks who appear to be doing things that I don't see elsewhere. Ex: reading posts from banned member RubberTanto, he seems to be doing ground work, ie: BJJ, at his school. David Dow seems to be doing things, that appear to be frowned upon at other BJK schools.

 

[Kreth]

LOL, all kidding aside, and in hopes to keep this somewhat civil here, , I have a question. Has or have people in the Bujinkan made any changes to the the art or have things pretty much stayed the same? Reading some other forums, I've seen a few Bujinkan folks who appear to be doing things that I don't see elsewhere. Ex: reading posts from banned member RubberTanto, he seems to be doing ground work, ie: BJJ, at his school. David Dow seems to be doing things, that appear to be frowned upon at other BJK schools.

Short answer: Yes, training with concepts makes the art perfectly adaptable for modern situations. Longer answer: If this slight drift is going to continue, we should probably split it off into its own thread, since it is technically off-topic for this sub-forum.

 

[WarGod]

Gee, why do we have friction in this area? :idunno:

My apologies if I came across as combative! That wasn't my intent. I was trying to say something along the lines of, that I - for my own training - dislike hearing "Its always been that way." as an argument to continue doing "it" that way.

 

[shesulsa]

I personally wouldn't want to train in a martial art where the predominant philosophy was "This worked 900 years ago, it will work today." Times change, new methods, techniques and weapons get developed. We don't throw rocks at each other on the battlefield anymore, nor do we use black powder rifles. Who would train that way for anything other than living history? And that's just not what I'm interested in.

I think the relevant premise of your comment here is that as times change and fighting evolves we have to bring that awareness into our systems and evolve the arts, find ways to approach the tactic-du-jour, etcetera. I don't disagree with this.

However, I think your other premise is an all-too-popular misconception about traditional martial arts in general. Although I'm not a ninjutsu person (nor a ninjItsu, TSD, Iga, etc. person), the TMA I train in does not do things just because they worked a long time ago - there is some historical preservation but the main course of study is not dedicated towards training things that no longer work.

I think this may be what Kreth is referring to as a source of friction in the TMA sections of the board.

Just my .02

:asian:

 

[shesulsa]

My apologies if I came across as combative! That wasn't my intent. I was trying to say something along the lines of, that I - for my own training - dislike hearing "Its always been that way." as an argument to continue doing "it" that way.

Ah - we were posting at the same time. Thanks.

 

[Brian R. VanCise]

*looks around, smelling the air, trying to get a handle on where that burning smell is coming from.*:flame:

LOL, all kidding aside, and in hopes to keep this somewhat civil here, , I have a question. Has or have people in the Bujinkan made any changes to the the art or have things pretty much stayed the same? Reading some other forums, I've seen a few Bujinkan folks who appear to be doing things that I don't see elsewhere. Ex: reading posts from banned member RubberTanto, he seems to be doing ground work, ie: BJJ, at his school. David Dow seems to be doing things, that appear to be frowned upon at other BJK schools.

The Bujinkan and Budo Taijutsu in my opinion is constantly evolving as Hatsumi Sensei's teaching evolves. Many Budo Taijutsu practitioners are following this lead! This is a truly living martial art!

 

[Grey Eyed Bandit]

Has or have people in the Bujinkan made any changes to the the art or have things pretty much stayed the same?

Classic answer, and the best I can think of right now - the way I do omote gyaku these days is not the same as it was five years ago, and it will probably not be the same in five years from now.

Besides, no style owns the sole right to specific techniques.

 

[Brian R. VanCise]

Now as to ground work in the Bujinkan. Well I have seen some pretty good ground work and Hatsumi Sensei has also put some out on at least one DVD. Very similar in some ways to BJJ and yet oh so different. At least one movement with a bump and a few others that had similarity. The DVD at this moment escapes my mind but it might have been: What is Martial Arts. Funny though ground work from judo, jiujutsu and yes Brazilian Jiujitsu meshes very, very nicely with Budo Taijutsu. Just my 02.

 

[Brian R. VanCise]

Besides, no style owns the sole right to specific techniques.

This is very true!

 

[makimaki]

There should not be any friction, regarding this topic. With the growing popularity of MMA, BJJ is becoming as common as TKD. If someone pulls guard on you, its probaly gonna help if you understand the position and escape.

 

[newtothe dark]

Besides, no style owns the sole right to specific techniques.[/quote]

This is so true. Almost all systems include aspects from what other say are "theirs" Human evolution and intellect will run its course even if the people are sperated by oceans if the enviorment supports it. By this I mean fights will end up on the ground IF the ground is a suitable fighting surface. The arts that come from areas with lots of rice patties or boats tended to stand up because flat on your back in water is a fast death sentence. Also those from more rocky terrains tended to have deeper stances to allow for more sure footing. Is this always true , NO. There can be variances based on simple migration and war. Trade and travel have also affected these things. they have found chopsticks in digs in egypt but they never took off there yet in the east they are everywhere. This is one of the greatest joys I have had in training in the arts is not only dewelling on the differences but on the similarities this gives me not only a perspective of the arts in question but a window back to a differnet time and a look at man in general and how time has evolved us all.