Gracie Combatives

[ballen0351]

So this "new" BJJ school opened near me...I say new because its the same school but its changed name school affiliation. The instructor seems legit I've personally seen him enter and win several local NAGA and Judo tournaments but he's never had a Gracie affiliation before He was trained by a different organization. I'm curious what Combatives is supposed to be. I contacted them and you take the combative program 1st as a new student. Then must graduate from it before you can join the advanced BJJ classes. He gave me the corporate answer from the Gracie website about what combatives is but anyone here taken the course and "graduated"

 

[Tony Dismukes]

I haven't taken the course, but I'm familiar with the content. It's a curriculum containing 36 lessons focused on basics for street application - escape from the mount, headlock defense, punch protection from the guard, a few submissions, etc. Instead of free sparring/rolling, students do positional drills and reflex development drills. At the Gracie Academy I believe that students have to cycle through the entire 36 lessons three times before they are eligible to test for blue belt.

It's a reasonably solid introduction to the art for beginners and I've swiped much of the content for when !'m teaching new folks.

 

[ballen0351]

I haven't taken the course, but I'm familiar with the content. It's a curriculum containing 36 lessons focused on basics for street application - escape from the mount, headlock defense, punch protection from the guard, a few submissions, etc. Instead of free sparring/rolling, students do positional drills and reflex development drills. At the Gracie Academy I believe that students have to cycle through the entire 36 lessons three times before they are eligible to test for blue belt.

It's a reasonably solid introduction to the art for beginners and I've swiped much of the content for when !'m teaching new folks.

Thank you So if your were not a gracie school before what do you just go attend a seminar and then your license to teach it? 2 weeks ago there wasnt a Gracie sign anywhere near the school now they are everywhere

 

[Tony Dismukes]

Thank you So if your were not a gracie school before what do you just go attend a seminar and then your license to teach it? 2 weeks ago there wasnt a Gracie sign anywhere near the school now they are everywhere

I'm not sure how it works for previously established and ranked instructors. I know they have an intensive instructor's course focused on how to teach which is required for their franchisees. The actual content in the Combatives curriculum should be familiar to any BJJ black belt, but the Gracie Academy is looking for standardization to make sure everybody is teaching the material in the same way.

 

[Brian R. VanCise]

I am not sure about the licensing structure but the skeptic in me says you go to the Gracie Academy train, pay a lot of money and walla you are a Gracie Combatives instructor.

As to the Gracie Combatives course as Tony said it is pretty solid, introducing fundamental skill sets to utilize Gracie Jiujitsu on the street!

 

[ballen0351]

Thanks found out more info today and the old owner and only black belt there left. Which sucks I liked the new schedule they released but not the new owner

 

[kuniggety]

Tony hit up most of it. The big thing is what level certified training center they are. L1 is combatives only and will promote up to blue belt. L2-4 teach what's called the master cycle and can promote up to purple, brown, and black respectively. To be a L1 instructor, you have to be at least a blue belt and go through their instructor program. I'm certain the requirements are similar for L2-4. Their instructor training seems fairly comprehensive and is rigidly enforced.

 

[Hanzou]

While I loathe everything becoming standardized across the Gracie affiliations, the combatives program is very good, and does a great job of teaching practical jiujitsu for self defense.

Sucks that there's no black belt to teach it though. That's frankly the best case scenario, and I'm always a bit wary of non-black belts running schools these days. In the 90s, it was understandable, but at this stage there should be a certified black belt teaching Bjj.

 

[ballen0351]

While I loathe everything becoming standardized across the Gracie affiliations, the combatives program is very good, and does a great job of teaching practical jiujitsu for self defense.

Sucks that there's no black belt to teach it though. That's frankly the best case scenario, and I'm always a bit wary of non-black belts running schools these days. In the 90s, it was understandable, but at this stage there should be a certified black belt teaching Bjj.

Well he's wearing a black belt now... He was a purple belt last year under the former owner. Not sure what happened. It sucks because their new schedule is perfect for me.

 

[kuniggety]

Well he's wearing a black belt now... He was a purple belt last year under the former owner. Not sure what happened. It sucks because their new schedule is perfect for me.

Do they have a website? That's quite the jump.

I think I differ with Hanzou here though that I think a purple belt is more than qualified to teach what's in the combatives program. Even as a blue belt and not having gone through any kind of instructor program, I've taught a number of the technique to coworkers. A purple belt should be able to do any of these, in all of their variations, in his/her sleep.

 

[ballen0351]

Do they have a website? That's quite the jump.

I asked him about it apparently the pictures of him in the black belt are when he's teaching TKD for which he does have a black belt in. He's now a BJJ brown belt and wears that when teaching the BJJ classes. So I guess thats ok although he diesnt ever mention TKD classes on his site anywhere.
His son a blue belt is also an instructor for BJJ so its the two of them. I'm trying to find the old owner now to see if hes still teaching somewhere I liked him I trained some Judo with him a little in the past but nothing official.

 

[Hanzou]

I agree with Kun that going from purple to black in a year is quite a jump. I've seen it happen, but the person who did it was a phenom who used to wrestler and was tapping black belts with relative ease on the mats and at tournaments. However, even in that scenario, he was a 4 stripe purple going into brown.

 

[punisher73]

Just to point out, that to become a "blue belt" with the Gracie Combatives, you have to do a live test at an actual Gracie Academy. They have some other name for their blue belt that you get through the online university.

 

[Brian R. VanCise]

They call it a technical blue belt. Frankly, it just muddies the waters.

 

[punisher73]

They call it a technical blue belt. Frankly, it just muddies the waters.

Thanks, I couldn't remember, and was too lazy to look it up.

I agree that it muddies it a bit. The average person isn't going to know what it means versus a "real" blue belt.

 

[Hwikek]

Isn't the "Gracie Combatives" program only sponsored by the Gracie Academy in Torrance? If I remember correctly there's some kind of filial dispute over the online Gracie University programs that the Torrance school is putting out. Then again Pedro Sauer is becoming more closely affiliated with the Torrance school and I don't think anyone would argue that Pedro isn't familiar with "street applicable" BJJ.

 

[Raymond]

I can help as I am very familiar with Gracie Academy and their CTC system.Tony has a lot of it right. I'll just fill in where I can.

Tony hit up most of it. The big thing is what level certified training center they are. L1 is combatives only and will promote up to blue belt. L2-4 teach what's called the master cycle and can promote up to purple, brown, and black respectively. To be a L1 instructor, you have to be at least a blue belt and go through their instructor program. I'm certain the requirements are similar for L2-4. Their instructor training seems fairly comprehensive and is rigidly enforced.

You are pretty much spot on BUT I just want to clarify that a L1 cannot promote their own students. They test them, film them testing them, grade it and then send it to headquarters where someone else grades it along with going over the instructor's comments with a fine tooth comb. So really they are checking the instructor's skill and the student at the same time.

While I loathe everything becoming standardized across the Gracie affiliations, the combatives program is very good, and does a great job of teaching practical jiujitsu for self defense.

Sucks that there's no black belt to teach it though. That's frankly the best case scenario, and I'm always a bit wary of non-black belts running schools these days. In the 90s, it was understandable, but at this stage there should be a certified black belt teaching Bjj.

The "Technical Blue Belt" is basically seen as a scarlet letter even to other Gracie Academy people. Since it is a standardized curriculum, there are actual tests over the material for promotion. Online students to get their "technical" belt that has a "technical" tag on it have to score an 80 out of 100. A live CTC student must score a 90 minimum and spar the instructor live with strikes for five minutes (instructor throws punches, you defend with just Gracie Jiujitsu). Grading is very strict. An example is when I tested for blue I was docked a point for "inefficient grip" on an armbar from guard. My pinky was a little lose lol no joke.

Just to point out, that to become a "blue belt" with the Gracie Combatives, you have to do a live test at an actual Gracie Academy. They have some other name for their blue belt that you get through the online university.

You are right. See above.

Also they don't just do francise agreements. As a CTC you are seen as an extension of Torrance, and a blue belt instructor at a L1 school is expected to teach the material in the SAME way as a black belt at a L4 or even at Headquarters. Obvioulsy there are pros and cons, but I think more pros. Basically if I go to some level 1 school in Bum F***, AR and then go to Torrance and get a private from Rener the technique will be taught in 100% the same way.

Hope this helps.

 

[Tony Dismukes]

As a CTC you are seen as an extension of Torrance, and a blue belt instructor at a L1 school is expected to teach the material in the SAME way as a black belt at a L4 or even at Headquarters. Obvioulsy there are pros and cons, but I think more pros. Basically if I go to some level 1 school in Bum F***, AR and then go to Torrance and get a private from Rener the technique will be taught in 100% the same way.

I'm on the fence regarding this approach. Part of what I like about BJJ is the fact that it's not standardized. Everybody gets to experiment and find their own way. I don't teach the same way that my instructor does and he doesn't expect me to. In fact, if you took classes from each of the black belts at my gym, you'd find we all do things differently.

On the other hand, if you are going to have a standardized curriculum, Rener and Ryron have come up with a very good one. You could do a lot worse than following the program they've designed.

 

[Raymond]

I'm on the fence regarding this approach. Part of what I like about BJJ is the fact that it's not standardized. Everybody gets to experiment and find their own way. I don't teach the same way that my instructor does and he doesn't expect me to. In fact, if you took classes from each of the black belts at my gym, you'd find we all do things differently.

On the other hand, if you are going to have a standardized curriculum, Rener and Ryron have come up with a very good one. You could do a lot worse than following the program they've designed.

Right, I agree. There are pros and cons. Cons are that of course there is more than one way to skin a cat as they say. But a Pro would be that at the same time they offer students the ability to train at ANY CTC for free when traveling so the idea that you basically get the same experience at home I think can be helpful.

I trained at other places for about three years before I settled on the CTC. What sold me personally was that there was never the random "move of the day" type class where the instructor just isn't feeling it and each class is just random. IE super advanced X guard entry one day, then the next class is day 1 shrimping.

But I attend a L4 CTC with a legit black belt (black belt before joining GA organization). I would not attend a L1 run by a blue belt personally.

 

[Raymond]

And this might sound silly but I view a Gracie Academy and their brand of "Gracie Jiu Jitsu" as a separate rank and art from BJJ as a whole. But that's just me in my own brain so take it for what you will.