Going into the Big Wheel

[Mark Lynn]

So yesterday I ran across some of my notes on different drills in the Tapi drills. I remembered doing them at the camps with GM Remy and one of them was the "Big Wheel".

A and B (A feeds and B defends) both in Right leads and sticks are in the right hand

A feeds in a HFH (#1) to B
B inside blocks and wraps with his EH (empty hand) in a CCW direction trapping A's stick arm.
B's stick is now under his EH arm so he thrusts with the PU (punyo) towards A's face.
A blocks and grabs B's SH ( stick hand wrist) to counter.
B hooks A's wrist with PU and wraps it CW down to his stomach for brace, as he reaches across with his EH to grab A's elbow and locks it by pushing upwards. (At this point both of A's hands are trapped for the moment allowing B to get in the kidney shot with his SH fist)

Now when I went to class and worked with this with one of my black belts, we felt the distancing on the technique for the PU was wrong. In that 1) as we thrusted with the PU the tip of the stick is still under our arms which made the "Big Wheel" technique not work smoothly (we were bound up).

2) We made it work by not snaking A's SH in the first place since that helped set the distance and it trapped our S (stick) under our arm, if we instead grabbed A's S with our EH, and retracted or fed our S back on the high line (as in a HBH #2) then we could, get A to defend in the proper way (his check/grab on my SH wrist, which is what I'm asking for by feeding the HBH PU) and then wrap using our PU to get to the "Big Wheel"

Anyone else have any insight or suggestions on this technique?

 

[Dieter]

Hi Mark,

have a ook at this one:

And what I mean starts at 0:58.

Is that it?

Greetings

Dieter

 

[Mark Lynn]

Thanks Dieter for the video.

Yeah that is the main technique I was asking about, although you ended up getting into it much the same way we did. Which was to check the stick hand from the top or outside then feed in the butt of the stick and hook the hand with the butt and circle it and then lock the elbow.

My notes have a different entry being the snaking/wrapping of the stick hand CCW and then feeding the butt of the stick.

BTW thanks for the video link, enjoyed watching it.

 

[Dieter]

Thanks Dieter for the video.

Yeah that is the main technique I was asking about, although you ended up getting into it much the same way we did. Which was to check the stick hand from the top or outside then feed in the butt of the stick and hook the hand with the butt and circle it and then lock the elbow.

My notes have a different entry being the snaking/wrapping of the stick hand CCW and then feeding the butt of the stick.

BTW thanks for the video link, enjoyed watching it.

OK, I do that too sometimes. But then I end a little different.

You get a #1, circle ccw with the left around the stick ofd the opponent.
Attack with your punyo from youer center to the face of the opponent. He blocks with his left palm.
You hook the hand with the right punyo, go cw to end with the right hand at your right hip with the trapped left hand of the opponent.
Now you move with your own left hand from underneath to the ellbow of the left arm of the attacker and pull it to your chest, to that you get an armbar. Now you can strike with the right fist to the stomach or left kidney of the attacker.
Then I would put my sticck behind the ellbow of the opponent, grab it with my left from above and lock/throw like in the video by pulling to the left.

Clear?

Greetings

Dieter

 

[Dieter]

Hi Mark,

did you get the
mail with the 2 videos I have send you to the

hiddens .....

email address?

Please let me know

greetings

Dieter

 

[Mark Lynn]

Dieter

Thanks for the videos I did get them. This has been the first chance I have had to get on the internet since you sent them to me and I'll look at them in a minute.

As to the technique Your description was very clear thank you. Now what led to my question is when we were trying this out as I feed in the butt end of the stick from under my arm at close range I was having difficulty getting the tip of the stick out from under my arm pit (the tip of the stick) enough to clear so I could hook the hand and go into the technique.

If I hit/blocked and then recoiled (to use Dan's terms) the stick above the empty hand shoulder I had the clearance to feed in the high back hand butt strike to my partner and had no problem getting the technique. But feeding it from underneath my arm pit (due to the wrapping of the Stick) we felt it was; #1 very easy to counter and jam it, and #2 we both had problems with the clearing of the stick from under the arm pit.

So since you do this, is this perhaps a problem of range, as in I need to be back further (which almost negates the butt strike)? Or should I feed the butt at a steeper angle (this just came to me as I was writing) so I come upwards allowing maybe the tip to clear.

Or is this the wrong technique to do with someone shorter than you?

As I said the "Big Wheel" isn't the problem really it is how to get the proper butt strike to allow you to get to do the "Big Wheel" that we're having some difficulty especially from under the arm.

Oh yeah I saw the videos on my phone but I had problems viewing them; eye sight, small phone, and poor internet connection so I'll take a look at the videos here in a minute.

Thoughts?

 

[Mark Lynn]

Dieter

Thanks for the videos, I just watched them. Thanks also for sharing the arm bar lock, (at the end of the first and the 2nd video) that is cool. Maybe I'll video what we were doing and send it to you so you can see what I mean, because it didn't appear like you were having any clearance issues like we were.

I also noticed that your partner was slightly taller than you, where Jackie is shorter than I so when I feed the butt strike it was almost horizontal to her face. I've never had an issue with it before at the camps with my partners but this time it just didn't seem right. Which was the reason for my posting about it.

 

[Mark Lynn]

Dieter one more thing, was that your son? And did you go out and video that for me?

 

[Dieter]

Hi Mark,

I start from the rear:
yes, it was Sascha, my oldest son.
He is Lakan Isa.
And yes, I recorded them specially for you.

Regarding the size, Sascha is pretty exacly my size. It looks like he is a little taller but this may be a perspective thing or he wears shoes an I don't
My younger son Marius is about 2-3 inches taller than Sascha and I are.

Regarding the distance problems:
you have to feed the inside punyo in a distance, that you would be able ti hit your partner.
Do not worry about the tip of the stick then.
After the Punyo has been stopped, you see that I "turn a big wheel" cw to the outside.
During that motion the tip of the stick is coming out of the armpit and so no problems.
This is in the first video.

In the second video I show a different entry to the final fositions, of wgich there are 3 and I show 2 of them in the video. Punyo to the biceps and to the sholder.

And yes it would be cool to get a video from you to see what you are doing.

Greetings

Dieter

 

[Mark Lynn]

Dieter

Once again thanks for taking the time to video the sequence and to send it to me. I'll see if we can video it tonight and then I'll try and send it to you.

I was thinking about the arm bar this morning that you show, I'll have to try that out since it is slightly different than what Remy showed us. I prefer your version better actually, it made more sense really to brace the arm against the side as opposed to bracing the hand against the belly.

 

[Dieter]

Dieter

Once again thanks for taking the time to video the sequence and to send it to me. I'll see if we can video it tonight and then I'll try and send it to you.

I was thinking about the arm bar this morning that you show, I'll have to try that out since it is slightly different than what Remy showed us. I prefer your version better actually, it made more sense really to brace the arm against the side as opposed to bracing the hand against the belly.

Hi Mark,

yes,it would be nice to receive a video from you.
Please send via email, because I have conitnuously problems to log in here with my Iphone.
The net is horrible here. I am in holidays for a week in Holland.
Please demonstrate the problems you have with the distance as well as the armbar from Remy.

Looking forward to it.
Just film it with a smartphone and take care, that the light is behind the camera and not against the camera.

Greetings

Dieter

 

[Mark Lynn]

Hi Mark,

yes,it would be nice to receive a video from you.
Please send via email, because I have conitnuously problems to log in here with my Iphone.
The net is horrible here. I am in holidays for a week in Holland.
Please demonstrate the problems you have with the distance as well as the armbar from Remy.

Looking forward to it.
Just film it with a smartphone and take care, that the light is behind the camera and not against the camera.

Greetings

Dieter

Dieter

Lost my smart phone so I'll have Jackie or Kevin send it, we'll get it to you.

Thanks
Mark

 

[Dieter]

Ok great.
Looking forwart to see

 

[Mark Lynn]

Dieter

Yesterday Jackie and I went over your video, I forwarded it to her prior to class and we both felt we were having a range/distance issue. We didn't have time after class to go over it in detail. We'll try on Wednesday and hope video it and send it to you then.

She thought you were awesome for going out and shooting the video for me.

Mark

 

[Dieter]

Dieter

Yesterday Jackie and I went over your video, I forwarded it to her prior to class and we both felt we were having a range/distance issue.

So you still have the distance issue.
Ok. Will be interesting to see.

We didn't have time after class to go over it in detail. We'll try on Wednesday and hope video it and send it to you then.

That would be great so I can have a look where the problem is.
I look forward to the video.

She thought you were awesome for going out and shooting the video for me.

Mark

Pleasure.
You helped so much during the "Hall of Fame" in San Antonio.
This is the least I can do.

Greetings.
Dieter

 

[Mark Lynn]

Dieter

Sorry my bad, I meant earlier when I posted, that Jackie and I looked at your video and compared it to how we were doing the technique and the problems that we were having and decided that it was a range/distance between us issue. I had to planned to film it last night to show you how we were doing it, but Jackie and Kevin needed to run right after class and I wanted top go and work out in a Pekiti Tirsa class to get some extra fun time in. Although we will film it on Saturday and send it then.