K
kungfulee
Guest
Does anybody know where grand master pesare recieved his training and ranks? And what art does he teach?
William Chow Chinese Kara-Ho Kempo
^
Adriano Emperado Kajukenbo
^
Victor Sonny Gascon- Karazenpo Go Shinjutsu (Shaolin Kempo)
^
George Pesare - Karazenpo Go Shinjutsu/ Kempo
^
Nick Cerio NCK (Also studied under Chow/ Parker)
I believe Gascon had a conflict with Emperado and left to form his own style. Likewise, Pesare had a conflict with Gascon and left his organization (a few sites state that Gascon only promoted Pesare to purple belt, other sites indicate he was his student from 60-63 and received his black belt, while still others state he later got his 9th from Gascon?????). I seems to be like this throughout martial arts history.
I'm certain people from this lineage (I study the Parker system), can give you more information.
^
Adriano Emperado Kajukenbo
^
Victor Sonny Gascon- Karazenpo Go Shinjutsu (Shaolin Kempo)
^
George Pesare - Karazenpo Go Shinjutsu/ Kempo
^
Nick Cerio NCK (Also studied under Chow/ Parker)
I believe Gascon had a conflict with Emperado and left to form his own style. Likewise, Pesare had a conflict with Gascon and left his organization (a few sites state that Gascon only promoted Pesare to purple belt, other sites indicate he was his student from 60-63 and received his black belt, while still others state he later got his 9th from Gascon?????). I seems to be like this throughout martial arts history.
I'm certain people from this lineage (I study the Parker system), can give you more information.
Danjo
Master Black Belt
Kenpoist said:
Gm Pesare trained to purple belt and then moved from California to Rhode Island. He asked GGM Gascon if he could start teaching Kempo there because there was no kempo there already. Gascon said yes. Pesare trained in many other martial arts as can be seen from his website, Judo, Tai Kwon Do etc. and recieved black belt ranks in them. He modified and added to what he'd been taught etc. In the 60's Gascon awarded Pesare his black belt for his accomplishments etc. Then, in the 90's, Gascon came out to see Pesare and awarded him a 9th degree black belt, By then, Pesare had trained so many champions etc. that it was really icing on the cake for him.
Gentle Fist
Master Black Belt
I will also add this...
He is one of the toughest instructors on the planet. This guy shows no mercy and put everyone through hell!!!
Search some of Karazenpo's old posts on the forum, he trained with him...and posted about the training he went through.
He is one of the toughest instructors on the planet. This guy shows no mercy and put everyone through hell!!!
Search some of Karazenpo's old posts on the forum, he trained with him...and posted about the training he went through.
RevIV
Black Belt
GGM has a DVD out right now of all the old training and some of the first fights in New England.. A lot of 8mm converted but just watching some of the old techniques really makes you go... Hey.. I have that.. Sort of. Ha. If you study Shaolin Kempo, or Cerio Kenpo you need to find out how to get a copy of this DVD. you will see a lot of your techniques the way they were done in the early 60's. I was fortunate enought to be at the ceremony when GGM Pesare recieved his 9th Dan from SGM Gascon and it was a greeat honor to see it happen. Everything that has happened since is between them. on that DVD it has one of the first sanctioned no holds barred fights between GGM Pesare's first black Belt GM Carpenter and.. well someone that i do not know but he did not make it unfortunetly.
In Peace
Jesse
In Peace
Jesse
RevIV
Black Belt
one last thing on GGM Pesare's DVD. you really get to see the development of Prof. Cerio from white belt to black belt.
In Peace
Jesse
In Peace
Jesse
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This is definitely a must have for the "history majors" and collector's.
RevIV
Black Belt
I def. agree with that one.. Another one that i just found was a DVD by Choki Motobu, the son of Chosei Motobu. This one may of been around for awhile but i just found it. I guess i have been looking for more history on this Master ever since i worked out with him in Long Island a year or so ago and am now having him in for a seminar this summer. All these great masters.. there is one thing that we will be fortunate about with this generation and that is the ability to put there style on tape. Not for them.. but for us and for future generations. Boy would i love to see footage of some of the great pioneers. Thanks to John Bishop i was able to see Prof. Chow and now that i actually have a computer with a high speed connection i can watch them
In Peace
Jesse
In Peace
Jesse
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Since the footage is far and few between, or even non-existant, it's probably a good lesson to get the current pioneers or seniors on footage as soon as possible!
Danjo
Master Black Belt
RevIV said:
Okay, so spill. How do I get one of these DVDs from Pesare?
RevIV
Black Belt
I have heard that he was selling them at some of his seminars. you could probably write him an email from his webpage and ask him. Besides that i really do not know. I know feel like that guy who asks everyone if you want to know a secret... then walk away and forget to tell everyone. ha. The one thing i know about GGM is that if you ask him if he is selling them he will answer straight up yes or no. The one think i do know is that it is out there in completed format. If you go to his webpage there is a link to email him.
In Peace
Jesse
In Peace
Jesse
Gentle Fist
Master Black Belt
A couple of years ago I saw a video of Profesor Cerio as a white belt, and they were showing some of the training they did...It looked like it was recorded off the same 8mm. Is this the same video?
Danjo said:
I've got a video of an interview with GM Gascon, it pretty much confirms all of this. The only difference between what you wrote here and (what I remember from) the interview is, Gascon says he didn't have any contact with Pesare for many many years after he left, and he didn't promote him at all until the 90's (no BB in the 60s).
RevIV
Black Belt
fistlaw720 said:
Did you see this video at one of GGM Pesare's seminars? If so then you saw one of the first editions of the video that he compiled and put together. Over the past few years i have seen that video grow and get longer with added material. The final copy was much longer than i ever saw at one of the seminars. Also on that video was the first Kempo Demonstration ever in New England. GGM Pesare was in this demo and does a ball roundhouse kick over a table into some guys head. they def. hit eachother during these demo's with about 30-50%. it was nice to see.
In Peace
Jesse
CTKempo Todd
Green Belt
RevIV said:
Good to run into you here Jesse!
Your bud in CT..
Todd
RevIV
Black Belt
you to Todd.!! I am sending Barry some info on a small tournament i run twice a year. the next one is May 7th. Everyone gets a piece of the pie, so if you bring some students you get money back.. all chief instructors do. Also once i get back from my honeymoon in June and before the seminar in July i am heading to Barry's for a little workout, interested?
In Peace
Jesse
In Peace
Jesse
RevIV
Black Belt
Ok, I was able to get an email to GGM Pesare and he has the DVD's available for $40. here is his webpage. http://simeonegpesare.tripod.com/index1.htm
I hope i was some help to some of you looking for some history footage
Jesse
I hope i was some help to some of you looking for some history footage
Jesse
This is Karazenpo. I have re-registered under KGS BBS (Karazenpo Go Shinjutsu Black Belt Society) after taking some time off the forum. I just popped in because I was told it was suggested my posts under Karazenpo to be searched for straight info. on SGM. Pesare.
Yes, you can do a search where I gave factual accounts of SGM. Pesare's training methods, tough reputation and stellar accomplishments over his long career. In a nutshell, he became legendary in the 60's along with some of his students with a reputation of putting out feared street fighters and tough tournament competitors. He put out many world champions in single and team competitions. He also competed himself and did demonstrations and great breaking exhibitions to show the 'destructive power' of Kempo Karate. No embellishment here, talk to the people that lived it and review the documentation of that early time period. It's all there. (Jesse is right, GM. Carpenter's oppponent tragically died from his injuries sustained in that 1973 'no holds barred' bare knuckle match). His reputation continued into the 80's when two of his students won World PKA Light heavyweight and welterweight Kickboxing titles, Danny Macaruso and Bobby Ryan. By the way, Macaruso, who was a BROWN BELT at the time, defeated the legendary Jeff Smith for the title. Check out Mac's history as a George Pesare brown belt beating highly respected veteran black belts all over the world. Check this out: "In 1980 in Brussels, Belgium, Mike Andersons organization put on an event that featured American Dan Macaruso vs. French karate legend Dominique Valera. Valera was the heavy favorite, and the crowd was disappointed with the outcome when the American won an easy victory over the Frenchman Valera."
Another George Pesare Brown Belt at the time (John Levesque) TKO'd the legendary Hidy Ochia in a kickboxing match in Rhode Island. I saw it first hand at ringside.
One of my first early ranks was a green belt from SGM. Pesare's school at 450 Branch Ave. and that test, according to those in the know, was tougher than some black belt tests of that era (1970's). His three day shodan test that I refer to affectionately as 'a right of passage' is still a nightmare from Hell. Just ask those who have made it or were special guest instructors and observed it.
I read here that he held black belt ranks in the 60's under several systems, true, but there was question from a poster on receiving a kempo black belt at that time. Some say yes, some say no, some say it was later. GGM. Gascon's name was brought up and of course he is a good source and so wasn't the late Prof. Nick Cerio who trained and made his shodan under SGM. Pesare in the 1965. I've seen it recorded as 1966 but I believe it was 1965. GM. Roger Carpenter was his first black belt and Prof. Cerio was his second.
All I can say is Professor Nick Cerio stated, in my presense sometime circa. 1990 when a topic of converstation came up regarding of who made rank under whom (Mitose, Chow, Emperado, Gascon, Parker...), that while he was still a student of George Pesare's Kenpo Karate Institute, he was aware of and personally observed Mr. Pesare's black belt certifcate and it was in the art of Kenpo Karate. Furthermore, he stated the certifcate was identical to the one he received when Mr. Pesare had his (Cerio's) shodan certificate (from the west coast) signed and delivered to the Kenpo Karate Institute in 1965. You have to remember, back circa. 1990 when this was discussed, there weren't as many questions asked as to who everyone's instructors were, who signed who's certificates, and so on. We were just trying to find out where our kenpo/kempo came from, lol. I did not even know that Sonny Gascon was the founder of my original system back then and didn't have a clue it came from Kajukenbo until Nick Cerio told me! I didn't even meet Sonny Gascon until 1994. I think I learned of him being Mr. Pesare's original kenpo instructor sometime after 1990, maybe '91, again, from Mr. Cerio.
Also at that time there were more than one school affiliated with KArazenpo Go Shinjutsu and if my memory is correct, Mr. Pesare stated there were other seniors who also taught there. One was Julian "Joe" Blacquerra and I don't recall the other(s), outside of Walter Godin. Bill Ryusaki is another name that now comes to mind. We know that Leoning's early students began organizing schools of their own. Some opened under the John Leoning banner, some opened under KaJuKenBo, and still others opened under new names. Each of these instructors and schools took with them the versions of the dynamic curriculum they were taught. Among these schools were the KemBojutsu school opened by Richard Ramos, the Burbank Karazenpo school opened by Victor "Sonny" Gascon and Walter Godin, the northern California Karazenpo school opened by David Kamalani and the school of Shaolin Kempo opened by Charles Frank.
This searching for your roots thing and history of the arts is more of the modern era in the martial arts world, now aided immensely by internet access. This was not only in kenpo/kempo but the martial arts in general. Now, everyone is asking questions and searching. So, before anyone asks, I did not ask Prof. Cerio to elaborate as to what teacher signed it and so forth...... Mr. Pesare did train under several instructors back then and more than one on the west coast from what he has related to me in the past. When this was brought to Sonny Gascon, he stated it was possible it came from another instructor. Prof. Cerio more than likely mentioned the name but it just didn't mean any big significant thing to me that I had to take notes on, lol, or was pressed to have to remember back then. I wasn't conducting an interview. I didn't even ask what dan, I didn't care. I knew Mr. Pesare was the real deal first hand, one of Kempo/Kenpo's living legends, an icon who is the undisputed founder of this art in New England and that was more than good enough for me.
Sonny Gascon told me personally that George Pesare was a 'GOOD' fighter. It appeared to me he was impressed by the young Pesare's abilities and heart. He further stated he held his own against anyone he threw at him and they were all twice his size. Mr. Pesare was the smallest one in his class. No matter what he went through and there were some beatings, you know the 'old Kajukenbo ways', he always came back the next day, bright and early, with the same enthusiasim he had on his first day. Once he surprised everyone there when he knocked a big Hawaiian opponent down with a jump spinning back kick that he wasn't taught but adlibbed himself! It became his trademark kick and I, myself, felt it's power and precision when he knocked me down with it for my green belt test!
I will close with this, the vast majority of the Hawaiian-derived kenpo/kempo pioneers including some American icons such as Mr. Ed Parker and others of the Okinawan systems like GGM. Robert Trias, were not black belts when they first began to teach on the United States mainland so the point is rather mute. It was the 'norm' during that period.The black belt thing was fairly new and wasn't a big thing for teaching. There may have been only two maybe three kenpo/kempo black belts, shodans, on the entire mainland during this early introduction of the art. A little later on, you had Mr. Parker's first black belt, icon, James Ibrao making his black in a little less than a year or so. Okinawan karate legends Mike Stone and Joe Lewis make shodan in the 6-7 month period. One Kajukenbo senior grandmaster from Hawaii who has always been highly respected to this day for his knowledge and abilities by his seniors and peers was never formally promoted past the rank of purple belt! This is all fact. The main thing was 'could you fight'? and 'could you teach others to fight' ? Remember, martial arts history recalls this period as "The Blood & Guts Era". Curriculums weren't overblown either because there was no real commericalism, nothing like we have today. You also got in a lot of training in less time because you trained with great intensity, hardcore, seven days a week with lots & lots of contact and conditioning, not two or three classes for an hour or so per week........ Nick Cerio said training back then was like training for the Roman Gladiators in a 90's interview about George Pesare. The proper protocol that you had to go by was to ask permission to open a school and teach what you were taught, the master key movements, and you were encouraged to build upon it the same as today. If this was granted, then it was an approval by your instructor that he believed in you enough to assist him in the propagation of the art under his name. This was a great honor. SGM. Pesare followed that proper protocol.
However, please don't make comparisons today, it's a whole different martial arts world and concept of training. We have to compare apples to apples, not apples to oranges. Remember, back then you were constantly under the gun to prove yourself for real not on paper. The standards for the rankings were also very different then. Look, don't go by me, do this and this is not a sales pitch, lol. Order the DVD @ [email protected] and be respectful ($40, will answer all your questions, the original kempo, the early abilites of Pesare, Carpenter, Cerio, etc., everything) of which SGM. Pesare put together from 8mm films that spans the 60's era. After viewing it, you tell me if that's not one highly talented black belt instructor, not to mention his students! As SGM. Pesare always said about his students: "No paper tigers, no phoney black belts." Okay, enough on this, I'm done. With respect, Professor Joe Shuras
PS: If anyone has any questions please e-mail me at [email protected]. I have a lot of things on my plate for the next two months, so I won't be checking the forums that much. I don't want anyone to think I'm blowing them off or not answering their responses to my post, so please use my private e-mail address. I check that one all the time. Thanks. Joe
Yes, you can do a search where I gave factual accounts of SGM. Pesare's training methods, tough reputation and stellar accomplishments over his long career. In a nutshell, he became legendary in the 60's along with some of his students with a reputation of putting out feared street fighters and tough tournament competitors. He put out many world champions in single and team competitions. He also competed himself and did demonstrations and great breaking exhibitions to show the 'destructive power' of Kempo Karate. No embellishment here, talk to the people that lived it and review the documentation of that early time period. It's all there. (Jesse is right, GM. Carpenter's oppponent tragically died from his injuries sustained in that 1973 'no holds barred' bare knuckle match). His reputation continued into the 80's when two of his students won World PKA Light heavyweight and welterweight Kickboxing titles, Danny Macaruso and Bobby Ryan. By the way, Macaruso, who was a BROWN BELT at the time, defeated the legendary Jeff Smith for the title. Check out Mac's history as a George Pesare brown belt beating highly respected veteran black belts all over the world. Check this out: "In 1980 in Brussels, Belgium, Mike Andersons organization put on an event that featured American Dan Macaruso vs. French karate legend Dominique Valera. Valera was the heavy favorite, and the crowd was disappointed with the outcome when the American won an easy victory over the Frenchman Valera."
Another George Pesare Brown Belt at the time (John Levesque) TKO'd the legendary Hidy Ochia in a kickboxing match in Rhode Island. I saw it first hand at ringside.
One of my first early ranks was a green belt from SGM. Pesare's school at 450 Branch Ave. and that test, according to those in the know, was tougher than some black belt tests of that era (1970's). His three day shodan test that I refer to affectionately as 'a right of passage' is still a nightmare from Hell. Just ask those who have made it or were special guest instructors and observed it.
I read here that he held black belt ranks in the 60's under several systems, true, but there was question from a poster on receiving a kempo black belt at that time. Some say yes, some say no, some say it was later. GGM. Gascon's name was brought up and of course he is a good source and so wasn't the late Prof. Nick Cerio who trained and made his shodan under SGM. Pesare in the 1965. I've seen it recorded as 1966 but I believe it was 1965. GM. Roger Carpenter was his first black belt and Prof. Cerio was his second.
All I can say is Professor Nick Cerio stated, in my presense sometime circa. 1990 when a topic of converstation came up regarding of who made rank under whom (Mitose, Chow, Emperado, Gascon, Parker...), that while he was still a student of George Pesare's Kenpo Karate Institute, he was aware of and personally observed Mr. Pesare's black belt certifcate and it was in the art of Kenpo Karate. Furthermore, he stated the certifcate was identical to the one he received when Mr. Pesare had his (Cerio's) shodan certificate (from the west coast) signed and delivered to the Kenpo Karate Institute in 1965. You have to remember, back circa. 1990 when this was discussed, there weren't as many questions asked as to who everyone's instructors were, who signed who's certificates, and so on. We were just trying to find out where our kenpo/kempo came from, lol. I did not even know that Sonny Gascon was the founder of my original system back then and didn't have a clue it came from Kajukenbo until Nick Cerio told me! I didn't even meet Sonny Gascon until 1994. I think I learned of him being Mr. Pesare's original kenpo instructor sometime after 1990, maybe '91, again, from Mr. Cerio.
Also at that time there were more than one school affiliated with KArazenpo Go Shinjutsu and if my memory is correct, Mr. Pesare stated there were other seniors who also taught there. One was Julian "Joe" Blacquerra and I don't recall the other(s), outside of Walter Godin. Bill Ryusaki is another name that now comes to mind. We know that Leoning's early students began organizing schools of their own. Some opened under the John Leoning banner, some opened under KaJuKenBo, and still others opened under new names. Each of these instructors and schools took with them the versions of the dynamic curriculum they were taught. Among these schools were the KemBojutsu school opened by Richard Ramos, the Burbank Karazenpo school opened by Victor "Sonny" Gascon and Walter Godin, the northern California Karazenpo school opened by David Kamalani and the school of Shaolin Kempo opened by Charles Frank.
This searching for your roots thing and history of the arts is more of the modern era in the martial arts world, now aided immensely by internet access. This was not only in kenpo/kempo but the martial arts in general. Now, everyone is asking questions and searching. So, before anyone asks, I did not ask Prof. Cerio to elaborate as to what teacher signed it and so forth...... Mr. Pesare did train under several instructors back then and more than one on the west coast from what he has related to me in the past. When this was brought to Sonny Gascon, he stated it was possible it came from another instructor. Prof. Cerio more than likely mentioned the name but it just didn't mean any big significant thing to me that I had to take notes on, lol, or was pressed to have to remember back then. I wasn't conducting an interview. I didn't even ask what dan, I didn't care. I knew Mr. Pesare was the real deal first hand, one of Kempo/Kenpo's living legends, an icon who is the undisputed founder of this art in New England and that was more than good enough for me.
Sonny Gascon told me personally that George Pesare was a 'GOOD' fighter. It appeared to me he was impressed by the young Pesare's abilities and heart. He further stated he held his own against anyone he threw at him and they were all twice his size. Mr. Pesare was the smallest one in his class. No matter what he went through and there were some beatings, you know the 'old Kajukenbo ways', he always came back the next day, bright and early, with the same enthusiasim he had on his first day. Once he surprised everyone there when he knocked a big Hawaiian opponent down with a jump spinning back kick that he wasn't taught but adlibbed himself! It became his trademark kick and I, myself, felt it's power and precision when he knocked me down with it for my green belt test!
I will close with this, the vast majority of the Hawaiian-derived kenpo/kempo pioneers including some American icons such as Mr. Ed Parker and others of the Okinawan systems like GGM. Robert Trias, were not black belts when they first began to teach on the United States mainland so the point is rather mute. It was the 'norm' during that period.The black belt thing was fairly new and wasn't a big thing for teaching. There may have been only two maybe three kenpo/kempo black belts, shodans, on the entire mainland during this early introduction of the art. A little later on, you had Mr. Parker's first black belt, icon, James Ibrao making his black in a little less than a year or so. Okinawan karate legends Mike Stone and Joe Lewis make shodan in the 6-7 month period. One Kajukenbo senior grandmaster from Hawaii who has always been highly respected to this day for his knowledge and abilities by his seniors and peers was never formally promoted past the rank of purple belt! This is all fact. The main thing was 'could you fight'? and 'could you teach others to fight' ? Remember, martial arts history recalls this period as "The Blood & Guts Era". Curriculums weren't overblown either because there was no real commericalism, nothing like we have today. You also got in a lot of training in less time because you trained with great intensity, hardcore, seven days a week with lots & lots of contact and conditioning, not two or three classes for an hour or so per week........ Nick Cerio said training back then was like training for the Roman Gladiators in a 90's interview about George Pesare. The proper protocol that you had to go by was to ask permission to open a school and teach what you were taught, the master key movements, and you were encouraged to build upon it the same as today. If this was granted, then it was an approval by your instructor that he believed in you enough to assist him in the propagation of the art under his name. This was a great honor. SGM. Pesare followed that proper protocol.
However, please don't make comparisons today, it's a whole different martial arts world and concept of training. We have to compare apples to apples, not apples to oranges. Remember, back then you were constantly under the gun to prove yourself for real not on paper. The standards for the rankings were also very different then. Look, don't go by me, do this and this is not a sales pitch, lol. Order the DVD @ [email protected] and be respectful ($40, will answer all your questions, the original kempo, the early abilites of Pesare, Carpenter, Cerio, etc., everything) of which SGM. Pesare put together from 8mm films that spans the 60's era. After viewing it, you tell me if that's not one highly talented black belt instructor, not to mention his students! As SGM. Pesare always said about his students: "No paper tigers, no phoney black belts." Okay, enough on this, I'm done. With respect, Professor Joe Shuras
PS: If anyone has any questions please e-mail me at [email protected]. I have a lot of things on my plate for the next two months, so I won't be checking the forums that much. I don't want anyone to think I'm blowing them off or not answering their responses to my post, so please use my private e-mail address. I check that one all the time. Thanks. Joe
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Welcome back! You've been sorely missed!
green meanie
Master Black Belt
Welcome back. And thanks for the info. Sounds like some REALLY good stuff.
And thanks to RevIV for the link.
And thanks to RevIV for the link.
