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Xue Sheng
All weight is underside
I have little experince wiht Wing Chun but I was never told to be tense
Flying Crane
Sr. Grandmaster
Yeah, I don't do them with tension, but I do use power. Moreso in the first section of siu nim tao, but also keeping a fair bit of power thru the rest, and the other forms as well.
Power and Tension are not the same thing.
Power and Tension are not the same thing.
JustAVisitor
Orange Belt
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It is a combination of both. And it mostly depends on your practice level.
At the beginning, i was told this form is 'hard' and this form is 'soft' in general terms. So i would practice 'hard' everything in a 'hard' form, and everything 'soft' in a 'soft' form. But then after few years, i came to realize that every movement is yin and yang, whether you tense or relax depends on what you are trying to do. In 'tense'/'hard' forms, there are moments when you have to be relaxed (to gain speed for example). In 'soft'/'relaxed' forms, there are moments when you have to tense (to push away for example). One movement is a combination of 'tension' and 'relaxation'. How 'tension' and 'relaxation' mix is up to your understanding, to your intent, to your abilities.
After another few years, i found that being relaxed as much as possible and keeping 'tension' for the end of certain movements, saves me lots energy, and is much wiser. This is a work in progress. I am still playing with timing and sensitivity.
Like i said, it depends on your practice level. Simply start with the basics. Begin to notice subtleties. Explore subtleties. Figure out the simplest ways to be efficient... It is a learning process. And experimenting is key to real understanding.
At the beginning, i was told this form is 'hard' and this form is 'soft' in general terms. So i would practice 'hard' everything in a 'hard' form, and everything 'soft' in a 'soft' form. But then after few years, i came to realize that every movement is yin and yang, whether you tense or relax depends on what you are trying to do. In 'tense'/'hard' forms, there are moments when you have to be relaxed (to gain speed for example). In 'soft'/'relaxed' forms, there are moments when you have to tense (to push away for example). One movement is a combination of 'tension' and 'relaxation'. How 'tension' and 'relaxation' mix is up to your understanding, to your intent, to your abilities.
After another few years, i found that being relaxed as much as possible and keeping 'tension' for the end of certain movements, saves me lots energy, and is much wiser. This is a work in progress. I am still playing with timing and sensitivity.
Like i said, it depends on your practice level. Simply start with the basics. Begin to notice subtleties. Explore subtleties. Figure out the simplest ways to be efficient... It is a learning process. And experimenting is key to real understanding.
In the WT interpretation of the three classic forms, some parts of the body are in tension, while others are relaxed, with the overall quality being loose and springy. For example, in Siu Nim Tau or "Little Idea": the adducion of the legs is opposed by the forward tilting pressure of the hips, creating a sort of isometric tension in the legs. Similarly, during the "saam pai fut" movements (tan sau and three fook sau/wu sau movements) the chambered arm (held with a fist at your side) is constantly pulling back in a similar isometric tension. The extending arms by contrast tend to be more relaxed and springy, and some movements like the double sideward "fak saus" are as loose and relaxed as a piece of rope or a whip.
So you see, within a single form, there is a wide variety of levels of tension and relaxation. Moreover, a beginner will often need to use more tension to stretch his limbs into the correct positions. An advanced practitioner can assume the correct positions with far more ease and remain relaxed. Lastly, there is considerable difference in interpretation of the forms by different lineages, so what you really need to do is work with your sifu until you can feel when you've got it right!
mook jong man
Senior Master
In our lineage the form is to be done in a relaxed manner - neither tense nor sloppy. The movements are firm but not rigid , relaxed but not floppy.
Obviously this is open to interpretation , one mans relaxed could be another mans tense.
Personally i think it should be done relaxed , gee if i had a dollar for every time i got slapped on the shoulder and told to relax i'd have more money than Donald Trump by now (but hopefully with a better hairstyle).
Obviously this is open to interpretation , one mans relaxed could be another mans tense.
Personally i think it should be done relaxed , gee if i had a dollar for every time i got slapped on the shoulder and told to relax i'd have more money than Donald Trump by now (but hopefully with a better hairstyle).
matsu
Purple Belt
we are taught that within each movement there is both.
and the form itself is taught to show us how to tense then relax as we move from technique to technique.
for example-the initial punch is relaxed untill 6inches from "impact" then relaxed
for example- the fook sau is hard and intense pulling back towards your own forearm to build the muscle increase your power and drive the technique in,then stop completely relax before jum is struck.
breathing is essential(doh) to accentuate the control.
and as geezer says the tension in the legs allows the freedom of movement in your top half.
bear in mind i have only been doing this since feb and am probably hardly in a position of experience to make these comments but sifu is very VERY concerned with these aspects of our form.so it is a constant reminder as i work through the moves.
matsu
and the form itself is taught to show us how to tense then relax as we move from technique to technique.
for example-the initial punch is relaxed untill 6inches from "impact" then relaxed
for example- the fook sau is hard and intense pulling back towards your own forearm to build the muscle increase your power and drive the technique in,then stop completely relax before jum is struck.
breathing is essential(doh) to accentuate the control.
and as geezer says the tension in the legs allows the freedom of movement in your top half.
bear in mind i have only been doing this since feb and am probably hardly in a position of experience to make these comments but sifu is very VERY concerned with these aspects of our form.so it is a constant reminder as i work through the moves.
matsu
These are wise words.
qwksilver61
Black Belt
the most useful tool that I have ever received in the way of relaxation and springiness is the chain punching technique,over time (thousand or more punches in sets of two hundred) you will relax and you will develop springy arms,as far as what I learned about execution of the forms;"staid but with intent or purpose" not clumsy,proper well placed moves,flowing from one technique to another minus tension......................my two cents...
Bodhisattva
Blue Belt
I practice my forms VERY soft - since I no longer practice forms
I don't do them often...because I'm the Grandmaster of Lazy...but you seem to be making a stronger statement. Could you explain a bit more?
mook jong man
Senior Master
I'm only guessing , but i think he's trying to say that forms are a waste of time if that is what he is trying to say then i have to strongly disagree with that idea.
I'm thinking you're right. Most people leave WC to take up MMA.
check the sig:
St. Louis MMA Training Gym : MMA / Boxing / Clinch / Submission Grappling / Wrestling Club
Portland MMA Training Gym: MMA Boxing / Brazilian Jiu Jitsu / Greco Roman Wrestling - Straight Blast Gym International
Mixed Martial Arts Instructionals and Videos - Free MMA - Muay Thai - BJJ - Boxing and Judo Clips
Interesting, since within the context of southern "narrow-bridge" kung-fu systems from which Wing Chun/Tsun emerged, WC/WT was the original rebel system that moved away from forms, and stressed simpliciy and practicality of technique. I mean we have three short empty handed sets compared to about a zillion in the next closest kung fu system. I guess it's just a matter of degree...or how far you want to go. For me, WC/WT has the balance about right.
profesormental
Brown Belt
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Greetings.
The forms can be seen as a platform to teach movements in an organized, precise, easy to remember manner.
Also, the practice of certain movements enough times makes the movements much more powerful and strong due to neuromuscular development (i.e. structure) instead of just muscular force.
So forms are just one method of training, yet I find it VERY valuable. Making sure that the structure and lessons learned in the forms are integrated and applied in drills, San Da and scenario self defense training is a way to compare, evaluate and increase my performance standards.
Hope this helps.
Juan M. Mercado
The forms can be seen as a platform to teach movements in an organized, precise, easy to remember manner.
Also, the practice of certain movements enough times makes the movements much more powerful and strong due to neuromuscular development (i.e. structure) instead of just muscular force.
So forms are just one method of training, yet I find it VERY valuable. Making sure that the structure and lessons learned in the forms are integrated and applied in drills, San Da and scenario self defense training is a way to compare, evaluate and increase my performance standards.
Hope this helps.
Juan M. Mercado
qwksilver61
Black Belt
the linking of the forms= many variables with the least amount of effort in the shortest amount of time without premeditation.......?
Franc0
Purple Belt
What's this in reference to?
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