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Speaking of Endorsements...
By DM03 - 04-17-2010 01:59 AM
Originally Posted at: FMATalk
====================
Bill McGrath:
Quote:
I want to second what Bob Hubbard said. Let's have some sense of prospective here guys.
Be careful...Latorre cracks the whip on spelling; can't be sure how he responds to syntax.
Quote:
Pekiti-Tirsia is a martial art, not a religion. Let's not argue what is or is not official dogma. Furthermore, this is a PTI forum. Not too long after I separated PTI from PTGO I began calling what I teach the Pekiti-Tirsia International System, since it really is different from the Pekiti-Tirsia Tuhon Gaje is currently teaching. The flip side of this is that the PTI curriculum is as close as I can humanly make it to what I learned under Tuhon Gaje in the 70's and 80's. I teach the techniques and methods I grew up on. I enjoy teaching them and my students seem to enjoy the way I teach them. If you dont like the way I teach, then you are free to go learn from someone else.
Guro Jack's description of double stick techniques accurately reflects how I taught him these techniques, and that description is EXACTLY how Tuhon Gaje taught me double stick basics when I first learned this material back in the 70's. The applications Dino wrote about are taught in the counter to counter drill phase of learning these basics. However, lets try to remember that the original question Alex asked was about nomenclature, ie, why is something that looks like a six count movement called an 8. Jack gave Alex the reason I gave him just as I gave Jack the reason Tuhon Gaje gave me.
I recently posted a new video on my YouTube channel. It shows Tuhon Gaje's endorsement of me and PTI back in 1996. In the video you'll hear Tuhon Gaje state that he has reviewed and approved the curriculum of PTI (a curriculum that I still use to this day). At that point in time, in addition to a written curriculum, Tuhon Gaje also had the 5 original Lionheart videos I made in 1993 as well as several basic Pekiti-Tirsia videos I made for my students in the early 90's (in addition to all the times Tuhon Gaje saw me teach in the 80s). Youll also hear Tuhon Gaje say that I teach the complete Pekiti-Tirsia system without addition or subtraction.
I had avoided posting this video for many years. There didnt seem much point in opening up old wounds. But maybe the video will help prevent our wasting time on arguments about who is more authentic when we could be having much more productive discussions.
Regards,
Tuhon Bill McGrath
First, we are going to differ right off the bat. The conviction of many, myself included, is that PTK is not a Martial Art but a Combat System. The view of PTK as the plaything for artisans is what is fast destroying its efficacy, legacy and chances of ever seeing the future. I have interfaced with enough of your ex-students to know that your claims of fidelity to the "exact" teachings of Tuhon and his material are overstated and far from accurate. The PTI curriculum is chock-full of your own manufacturings, constructed as you see fit. Which, granted, is your prerogative, since its yours. But that cannot legitimately carry the same name and title as the actual system you have altered.
What Tuhon Gaje did not teach and has never taught:
526 plus techniques for single stick
48 techniques for double stick
144 techniques for sword and dagger work
144 plus variations in knife
144 disarms
5 attack sub-system
a 3rd set of Espada y Daga Seguidas in Pakal Grip
Progressions in which each technique has 7, 8 or 9 variations and derivatives.
This is contrary not only to the manner in which Tuhon Gaje has traditionally taught, it flies in the face of any real Filipino Martial Art systemology.
As to your YouTube video of endorsement by Grand Tuhon Gaje, it surprises me that you would think to post evidence of an endorsement that was retracted almost as quickly as it was received. If you are reaching for that evidence, consider this...
Lionheart Tournament. Fax from GT dated July 18th, 1997, wherein it states "...what happened to the tournament? Why PTK lost? You have deviated from my teaching...stop using blocks, stances and take out that kickboxing thing..."
Or yours, dated July 28th, 1997, wherein it states "...it will be best if [we] divest all former ties..."
Or the one from February 1, 1998 wherein it is stated "...I, Grand Tuhon Leo T. Gaje, Jr., Sovereign Grandmaster of the Pekiti-Tirsia Kali System do hereby withdraw the title and rank of Master and "Tuhon" Sa Mataas Na Hakbang (Master Instructor) from William R. McGrath."
It is assuredly more comfortable to close our eyes to an unpleasant truth, hold hands and throw around words like brothers this-and-that, but the idea of what is "authentic" regarding this system is absolutely vital to its perpetuation and continued effectiveness in the field of battle, wherever that may be.
Read More...
------------------------------------
FMATalk.com Post Bot - FMA Feed
By DM03 - 04-17-2010 01:59 AM
Originally Posted at: FMATalk
====================
Bill McGrath:
Quote:
I want to second what Bob Hubbard said. Let's have some sense of prospective here guys.
Be careful...Latorre cracks the whip on spelling; can't be sure how he responds to syntax.
Quote:
Pekiti-Tirsia is a martial art, not a religion. Let's not argue what is or is not official dogma. Furthermore, this is a PTI forum. Not too long after I separated PTI from PTGO I began calling what I teach the Pekiti-Tirsia International System, since it really is different from the Pekiti-Tirsia Tuhon Gaje is currently teaching. The flip side of this is that the PTI curriculum is as close as I can humanly make it to what I learned under Tuhon Gaje in the 70's and 80's. I teach the techniques and methods I grew up on. I enjoy teaching them and my students seem to enjoy the way I teach them. If you dont like the way I teach, then you are free to go learn from someone else.
Guro Jack's description of double stick techniques accurately reflects how I taught him these techniques, and that description is EXACTLY how Tuhon Gaje taught me double stick basics when I first learned this material back in the 70's. The applications Dino wrote about are taught in the counter to counter drill phase of learning these basics. However, lets try to remember that the original question Alex asked was about nomenclature, ie, why is something that looks like a six count movement called an 8. Jack gave Alex the reason I gave him just as I gave Jack the reason Tuhon Gaje gave me.
I recently posted a new video on my YouTube channel. It shows Tuhon Gaje's endorsement of me and PTI back in 1996. In the video you'll hear Tuhon Gaje state that he has reviewed and approved the curriculum of PTI (a curriculum that I still use to this day). At that point in time, in addition to a written curriculum, Tuhon Gaje also had the 5 original Lionheart videos I made in 1993 as well as several basic Pekiti-Tirsia videos I made for my students in the early 90's (in addition to all the times Tuhon Gaje saw me teach in the 80s). Youll also hear Tuhon Gaje say that I teach the complete Pekiti-Tirsia system without addition or subtraction.
I had avoided posting this video for many years. There didnt seem much point in opening up old wounds. But maybe the video will help prevent our wasting time on arguments about who is more authentic when we could be having much more productive discussions.
Regards,
Tuhon Bill McGrath
First, we are going to differ right off the bat. The conviction of many, myself included, is that PTK is not a Martial Art but a Combat System. The view of PTK as the plaything for artisans is what is fast destroying its efficacy, legacy and chances of ever seeing the future. I have interfaced with enough of your ex-students to know that your claims of fidelity to the "exact" teachings of Tuhon and his material are overstated and far from accurate. The PTI curriculum is chock-full of your own manufacturings, constructed as you see fit. Which, granted, is your prerogative, since its yours. But that cannot legitimately carry the same name and title as the actual system you have altered.
What Tuhon Gaje did not teach and has never taught:
526 plus techniques for single stick
48 techniques for double stick
144 techniques for sword and dagger work
144 plus variations in knife
144 disarms
5 attack sub-system
a 3rd set of Espada y Daga Seguidas in Pakal Grip
Progressions in which each technique has 7, 8 or 9 variations and derivatives.
This is contrary not only to the manner in which Tuhon Gaje has traditionally taught, it flies in the face of any real Filipino Martial Art systemology.
As to your YouTube video of endorsement by Grand Tuhon Gaje, it surprises me that you would think to post evidence of an endorsement that was retracted almost as quickly as it was received. If you are reaching for that evidence, consider this...
Lionheart Tournament. Fax from GT dated July 18th, 1997, wherein it states "...what happened to the tournament? Why PTK lost? You have deviated from my teaching...stop using blocks, stances and take out that kickboxing thing..."
Or yours, dated July 28th, 1997, wherein it states "...it will be best if [we] divest all former ties..."
Or the one from February 1, 1998 wherein it is stated "...I, Grand Tuhon Leo T. Gaje, Jr., Sovereign Grandmaster of the Pekiti-Tirsia Kali System do hereby withdraw the title and rank of Master and "Tuhon" Sa Mataas Na Hakbang (Master Instructor) from William R. McGrath."
It is assuredly more comfortable to close our eyes to an unpleasant truth, hold hands and throw around words like brothers this-and-that, but the idea of what is "authentic" regarding this system is absolutely vital to its perpetuation and continued effectiveness in the field of battle, wherever that may be.
Read More...
------------------------------------
FMATalk.com Post Bot - FMA Feed
