Filipino Martial Tradition

[arnisandyz]

Article from Rapid Journal, Manila
by Pedro Reyes

Found this to be an interesting read. I agree with much of what he says. I've read other sources where some of his info is borrowed from. Talks about history, successorship, teaching, lineage, etc...

"Arnisadores prefer teachers who shine by their own light, like the sun rather than planets that shine by the reflected light of their school or master. That is why arnisadores like Remy Presas and Edgar Sulite claim to have created their own styles, rather than to have inherited them.

When a student first approaches a traditional master, the master may say, "Yes, I will teach you the little that I know." He would then demonstrate his abilities and if the student likes it, he would stay for more instruction. What the classical master will not say is, "Yes, I will teach you because I'm the 10th degree master of Rabid Dog Arnis" or "The grandmaster of Howling Devil Arnis appointed me as his successor." Such boasts are the product of a later, crasser, more commercial age. "

full article http://mozcom.com/~deadlock/peak-l/articles/art01.html

 

[Cruentus]

Awesome article, from what I speed-read!

Very relevent in todays FMA environment. I will have to read it in better detail when I am not busy here at work!

:asian:

 

[tshadowchaser]

A well thought out and worded article.
Thanks for the link

 

[Feisty Mouse]

That was really interesting. I hadn't thought of the structuring/lineages of the different kinds of arts I'm studying.

Thanks for posting it!

 

[Flatlander]

Thank you Andy. I appreciate your research and your sharing.

 

[Guro Harold]

Article from Rapid Journal, Manila
by Pedro Reyes

"Arnisadores prefer teachers who shine by their own light, like the sun rather than planets that shine by the reflected light of their school or master. That is why arnisadores like Remy Presas and Edgar Sulite claim to have created their own styles, rather than to have inherited them.
http://mozcom.com/~deadlock/peak-l/articles/art01.html

Hmm, sounds like a sentence in one of Wiley's books.

 

[Dan Anderson]

This is from a book Mark Wiley compiled and edited: Arnis: Reflections On The History Development Of The Filipino Martial Arts.
It is published by Tuttle Publishing.

Yours,
Dan Anderson

 

[Joe Eccleston]

This is from a book Mark Wiley compiled and edited: Arnis: Reflections On The History Development Of The Filipino Martial Arts.
It is published by Tuttle Publishing.

Yours,
Dan Anderson

hey, dan... you already quoted this article !!! very good read...:asian:

 

[Dan Anderson]

I was wondering if anyone caught that. Good memory, Joe. :asian:

Yours,
Dan Anderson

PS - I like the quote on the bottom of your post. Grandchild #4 came into this world two days ago. Yay! #5 is on the way.

 

[Tgace]

That for a simple reason. Once an arnisador starts to teach, he is open to life-and-death challenges. A master who gives a teaching certificate to a student, or appoints him as successor, effectively signs the death warrant for that student. No master likes that responsibility. (A Minor factor that may inhibit the master would be his loss of prestige should the student fail the challenge).

How does this translate to todays, promotional/successorship issues?

 

[mike dizon]

Unfortunately there are too many people concerned with being successors and grandmasters. Train hard and do not worry about being 10th dan

 

[arnisador]

do not worry about being 10th dan

But if I don't make 10th dan, I'll never be able to become an 11th dan!?!

I find the contrast between the notions of a grandmaster/lineage in Japanese systems and the notion of a fighter/synthesizer in FMA very interesting.

 

[Flatlander]

How does this translate to todays, promotional/successorship issues?

My take on the article was that to take a Filipino perspective, we should move away from the idea of lineage, and let each instructor stand on their own merit. I can see how this would solve many issues, but I see some downside to it as well. Basically, it effectively wipes out all promotional and successorship issues.

 

[Dan Anderson]

How does this translate to todays promotional/successorship issues?

Tgace,

It doesn't! That's the sticky wicket. Once RP chose belt rankings as a rating method, the game changed. I suspect (because I actually don't know) Filipino culture to be less formal than Japanese culture. The need for a rigid structure system isn't there. From what I understand, it's more of a "put up or shut up" way of doing things. The USA has gotten so far from that way of doing things that you can't get into an honest fist fight anymore. You can sue McDonald's for spilling hot coffee on yourself (instead of saying, "Be more careful in the future, stupid!"), for crying out loud. Anyway, couple the belt ranking system with the American tendency to go overboard for cultural imports and you have rank issues and successorship squabbles.

Yours,
Dan Anderson

PS - I just noticed up by my name I have been promoted to third degree black belt MT poster. All of you who have lesser rank, thpppppppppp!

 

[Flatlander]

Congratulations Master 'Super Dan' Anderson on your promotion.

 

[Dan Anderson]

Being one of the more wonderful people I know, I entirely deserve it. Yikes! you remember my old nickname. Anybody out there know how I got it?

Yours,
Moi

 

[Flatlander]

I heard it's because you can fly, and have been caught taking off your clothes in phone booths....

 

[arnisandyz]

My take on the article was that to take a Filipino perspective, we should move away from the idea of lineage, and let each instructor stand on their own merit. I can see how this would solve many issues, but I see some downside to it as well. Basically, it effectively wipes out all promotional and successorship issues.

You can't change the way things are now. The auther even mentions that "comercial" arnis is a big change that is happening and says it doesn't have to be a bad or derogatory label. I think if you have the mentality as a student to seek out teachers that want to teach you what THEY have. And not to be sold on the certificates and papers. As a teacher, you should let your abilities speak for themselves, never be afraid to look bad to your students, actively participate in classes, spar with your students, see if they can beat you. it should be every teachers wish that the student is better than yourself, then you will know you have done a good job and they can now return the favor.

The way things are today, going back to "the old way" will not work. Here's why. The method of natural selection (dueling, fighting ,challenges) doesn't happen anymore unless its in a sporting nature. Because of modern day society, culture and laws, you can no longer settle a dispute by deathmatch. Otherwise I don't think Mr Delaney would still be around. So without that element you will have millions of self declaired Masters running around with no checks and balances in place. (wait, don't we already have that?)

View the article as insight into the art and culture and not so much a solution for the problems of today.

Thanks

Andy

 

[Flatlander]

Being one of the more wonderful people I know, I entirely deserve it. Yikes! you remember my old nickname. Anybody out there know how I got it?

Yours,
Moi

 

[Joe Eccleston]

It doesn't! That's the sticky wicket. Once RP chose belt rankings as a rating method, the game changed. I suspect (because I actually don't know) Filipino culture to be less formal than Japanese culture. The need for a rigid structure system isn't there. From what I understand, it's more of a "put up or shut up" way of doing things. The USA has gotten so far from that way of doing things that you can't get into an honest fist fight anymore. You can sue McDonald's for spilling hot coffee on yourself (instead of saying, "Be more careful in the future, stupid!"), for crying out loud. Anyway, couple the belt ranking system with the American tendency to go overboard for cultural imports and you have rank issues and successorship squabbles.

Yours,
Dan Anderson

I Absolutely agree with Dan. Our (american martial arts community as a whole) dependence in ranks and successorships, and "MY MASTER TOLD ME THIS..." BS tends to water down QUALITY and PURPOSE. it's great for commercialization of the art, but takes away from the actual VIOLENCE from which martial arts came from. because in the end, this is why we spend so much time honing our skills... for the reality of Violence.

I've seen so many knuckleheads in bars act like id!ots because they are "black belts" in so and so art, and they've trained with Master Kiks-aniwons-as, only to face real gladiators who have absolutely no qualms ripping their limbs off.

So, the Filipino paradigm is more fitting to the reality of our chosen hobby... THAT IN THE END, IT'S JUST YOU AND YOUR SKILL.:asian: