Elbows vs. palm strike.

[cfr]

I practice elbows pretty regularly on a heavy bag and have always held them in very high regards. Recently though my instructor pointed out the values of palm strikes. To be specific, using a palm strike to the face with my elbow almost parelell to my palm, and my fingers pointed back to me. The logic being less chance of injuring myself by using elbows. I was wondering if anyone has attempted to compare the two in terms of speed, power, etc. and what the overall thoughts were on using one in place of the other?

 

[Flying Crane]

I think one of the biggest issues is distance. A palm strike has the full range of a punch, but an elbow requires you to be closer. I wouldn't look at it as a question of using one instead of the other, but rather when is it appropriate to use one, when appropriate to use the other. Individual circumstances will make one strike a better choice than the other.

 

[kenpo_disciple]

I think one of the biggest issues is distance. A palm strike has the full range of a punch, but an elbow requires you to be closer. I wouldn't look at it as a question of using one instead of the other, but rather when is it appropriate to use one, when appropriate to use the other. Individual circumstances will make one strike a better choice than the other.

what he said

 

[SAVAGE]

what he said

What they said!

 

[terryl965]

I would have to agree with what has already been said.
Terry

 

[James Kovacich]

I think one of the biggest issues is distance. A palm strike has the full range of a punch, but an elbow requires you to be closer. I wouldn't look at it as a question of using one instead of the other, but rather when is it appropriate to use one, when appropriate to use the other. Individual circumstances will make one strike a better choice than the other.

Yes and the palm strike can also be used in the elbow range too. (After re-reading it, I guess you stated that.)

 

[Flying Crane]

Yes and the palm strike can also be used in the elbow range too. (After re-reading it, I guess you stated that.)

Yeah, I didn't mean to imply it was single-ranged, but rather anything up to full range.

These are just two tools that should be in your toolbox. use the right tool for the job. Some jobs could be done equally well with a few different tools, so in that case pick your favorite. For other jobs one specific tool is clearly the better choice.

 

[rutherford]

But the thread begs the question: Is the palm strike an appropriate tool in Elbo range?

It seems like the motion is very similar, but you're cutting off the range of motion before impact by the whole length of your forearm (well, not really but lets leave PI out of this).

And, my favorite type of elbo is actually the opposite rotation where you're slamming your elbo down onto the target. No palm strike available here.

How about the lateral elbos? I don't see a good palm strike for either of those.

 

[Flying Crane]

But the thread begs the question: Is the palm strike an appropriate tool in Elbo range?

It seems like the motion is very similar, but you're cutting off the range of motion before impact by the whole length of your forearm (well, not really but lets leave PI out of this).

And, my favorite type of elbo is actually the opposite rotation where you're slamming your elbo down onto the target. No palm strike available here.

How about the lateral elbos? I don't see a good palm strike for either of those.

Under some circumstances, yes, the elbow will definitely work better. Doesn't always mean that the palm couldn't also be effective.

For your favorite elbow, I am taking that as a jab downward with the back of the elbow, for example to the back of someone's head once you have him doubled-over? Yes, this is very effective. But you could also thrust down into the back of his head with a palm strike. Would it be equally effective? Not sure, but I bet it could work well.

I could see another situation where someone is in close range, in front of you. You could fire a forward elbow, striking with the front of the elbow point, into his solar plexus. You could also fire a palm heel strike upwards under his chin, thrusting thru to snap his head backwards and ultimatley throw him backwards onto his head. Both effective? Probably. The palm heel has the potential to be more damaging, if you snap his head back hard enough you could break his neck, and if he lands on his head he could have some serious damage. Either of these results could be lethal. At this point, ask yourself if the situation warrants that kind of extreme solution, or will you land yourself in a lot of criminal trouble?

I am still not advocating one technique over the other. I still say they are both worth having in your arsenal, but understand circumstances may dictate using one over the other.

 

[Flatlander]

In a situation where you have the option to use either or, I'd likely stick with the elbow for 2 reasons - more power, and faster. Granted, there will be circumstances where a palm strike works better than an elbow, as the reverse is also true. When I have the choice, however....

 

[James Kovacich]

Faster, maybe for you. A lead palm is direct and "shorter" distance and sets many other technique. Economy of motion.

Elbows "can" come from the inside but the elbow that "most" people generate power from comes from an outside angle.

A lot of people overlook the palm strike but I see it as another option to a jab, an eyejab, an uppercut and others with slight adjustment.

 

[AdrenalineJunky]

I've used a palm thrust. . .well, is there any real doubt about how I intend to respond to this, lol?

 

[Jonathan Randall]

One is a screwdriver, the other a pair of pliers. Different tools for different jobs. Elbows are preferred, IMO, in grappling range and palm strikes in punching range. Both are preferrable, IMO, to closed fist striking for self-defence, IMO.

Good comments from all.

 

[still learning]

Hello, Just another thought on this...maybe palm strike should be compare to a fist strike?

A palm strike can be very effective...compare to fist (which has many tiny bones and hitting an uneven face.) The palm is almost as hard as a fist, and harder to fracture.

Ever got hit by a palm strike coming up from under the jaw?...tilting you head backwards? This can be a deadly strike? (will ends confrontations fast). Be carefully using this strike!

Elbows strike coming up the jaw...will do the same damage....Just my thoughts on this..........Aloha

 

[AdrenalineJunky]

Hello, Just another thought on this...maybe palm strike should be compare to a fist strike?

A palm strike can be very effective...compare to fist (which has many tiny bones and hitting an uneven face.) The palm is almost as hard as a fist, and harder to fracture.

Ever got hit by a palm strike coming up from under the jaw?...tilting you head backwards? This can be a deadly strike? (will ends confrontations fast). Be carefully using this strike!

Elbows strike coming up the jaw...will do the same damage....Just my thoughts on this..........Aloha

Elbows end a fight, for sure. Palm thrusts: I'd take a solid punching game over palm thrusts any day.

Just me, though.

 

[MJS]

I practice elbows pretty regularly on a heavy bag and have always held them in very high regards. Recently though my instructor pointed out the values of palm strikes. To be specific, using a palm strike to the face with my elbow almost parelell to my palm, and my fingers pointed back to me. The logic being less chance of injuring myself by using elbows. I was wondering if anyone has attempted to compare the two in terms of speed, power, etc. and what the overall thoughts were on using one in place of the other?

I would have to say that it depends on the situation and what exactly you want to do. We've mentioned the distance factor. From a clinch, both strikes would be effective. The palm can also be turned into a clawing strike. As akja said, with some slight adjustments, we have a wide assortments of tools to use.

Mike

 

[cfr]

To be specific, using a palm strike to the face with my elbow almost parelell to my palm, and my fingers pointed back to me.

Im not trying to sound rude, so my apologies in advance. I do appreciate everyones response, but I was really inquiring about this specific instance. I probably should have stated "in a very close/ clinch range". The range that could be done by either tool, with very similar body motions. Im aware than an elbow wouldnt work for longer ranges, and thats why I was narrowing down to this scenario.

 

[rutherford]

And I tried to only consider where the arm would make almost the same motion whether you choose to strike with the elbo or the palm.

When you're crashing your elbo down on somebody (I like to target the colar bone or smash directly into the face rather than the back of the head) the whole motion is very eliptical and your hand should be touching your chest when you strike. That's why I say there's no similar palm strike - with the same arm movement.

As far as using a palm strike to snap the head back - oh, yes. That's very common in the Bujinkan.

 

[Flying Crane]

And I tried to only consider where the arm would make almost the same motion whether you choose to strike with the elbo or the palm.

When you're crashing your elbo down on somebody (I like to target the colar bone or smash directly into the face rather than the back of the head) the whole motion is very eliptical and your hand should be touching your chest when you strike. That's why I say there's no similar palm strike - with the same arm movement.

As far as using a palm strike to snap the head back - oh, yes. That's very common in the Bujinkan.

gotcha. I was envisioning something different.

Well, you could smash down with the heel of the palm, but this is more of a swinging strike and is not a thrusting palm. Just looking at alternatives, not suggesting it is better or worse.

 

[rutherford]

Well, you could smash down with the heel of the palm, but this is more of a swinging strike and is not a thrusting palm.

If they're bent over, the arm I would use to strike an elbo would instead smash a palm to the arch of the back while the other hand struck and pulled upwards on their head and face. If I really didn't like the guy.

Or something completely different would happen, based on the positioning of my opponent, my tool availability, and split-second reactions.

Sorry to wander off topic.