Effectiveness of Krav Maga

[Goarmy12charlie]

Hi.
I'm brand new to this site, and am hoping to have a question of mine answered.

I am currently a one-stripe yellow belt in Taekwondo, and hope someday in the distant future to earn a black belt.
Taekwondo is the only martial art in my area (aside from Karate) so I decided to give it a go and ended up getting hooked. But I am also interested in other martial arts as well, including Krav Maga, which primarily deals with disarming people of their weapons and incapacitating them. After college I am planning to become a law enforcement officer, and I figured this may come in handy. But I stumbled upon an article that stated Krav Maga was very ineffective, with people walking right into counterattacks, and how the bad guy always put the gun right up to your head.
Now I know that the quality of training can greatly affect how well you perform, and every school is different. But in your personal opinion, would Krav Maga be worth the time and energy, or should I put that into another area ( the other art I am interested in is Judo, though I know that does not usually deal with the disarming of people's weapons).
Thanks a lot for any replies.

 

[VT_Vectis]

Hi mate, welcome to MT. I'm sure another, more knowledgeable member will answer your questions presently, but I'll give you what I can.

Firstly, if Krav Maga was ineffective the Israeli's wouldn't still be using it, that said there a lot of instructors who've gone to a weekend seminar and then set up a school... Not going to be any good, yeah? Like any MA, you find the real deal and you've hit the jackpot.

I'm in uk so the Police here don't really train in unarmed combat other than a few simple techniques, from what I understand. But I hear that many US Law Enforcement agencies have there own programmes so you'd be well served in looking at the organisation you want to join and see where they are at.

Judo is the basis for many combatives and defence systems throughout the world so it wouldn't do you any harm, mate.

All the best to ya.

 

[Buka]

Welcome to the forum, Goarmy, nice to have you.

Krav is fine, as is Tae-kwon-do, as is Judo, enjoy any or all of them. If you go into law enforcement, they'll be training you somewhat in the academy, which will probably open up more doors for you.

Best of luck and keep training, bro.

 

[marques]

Almost every martial art / self defense system claims to be the most effective. But effective for what? Disarm people in this case.
Ok, there are some statistics to prove something? Without statistics all effectiveness is marketing...

 

[Danny T]

Welcome.

Krav Maga can be excellent.
Krav Maga can be terrible.
Same as every training system. How good is the instruction, How dedicated is the student, How much does the student actually train and practice? All play a factor in is it effective?
Same with 'all' of the different systems/styles of the martial arts.
What it is called is not important; How it is trained and practiced is.

 

[Tony Dismukes]

1) Krav Maga training does include weapon disarms, but I think it's probably inaccurate to say that the art "primarily" focuses on disarms.

2) Empty handed defense against weapons is inherently a risky, low-percentage game. The likelihood of success ranges from "might work, if you're skilled and lucky and the guy with the weapon isn't" (for the good stuff) to "you will probably die and look stupid while doing it" (for the bad stuff). The Krav Maga disarms I've seen mostly lean towards the former, but it's good to remember that even the best material will (in the words of Marc Denny) allow you to die less often.

3) As others have noted, quality of instruction ranges hugely. This is true of the martial arts in general, but more so in some arts than others.

 

[Goarmy12charlie]

Okay, thanks for all of the replies. I do understand that it was kind of a broad question to be asking with so many factors involved, and may try it out during/after college, with maybe another new martial art as well (I'm really getting ahead of myself, aren't I?)
For now I will give my full attention to TKD.

 

[drop bear]

Welcome.

Krav Maga can be excellent.
Krav Maga can be terrible.
Same as every training system. How good is the instruction, How dedicated is the student, How much does the student actually train and practice? All play a factor in is it effective?
Same with 'all' of the different systems/styles of the martial arts.
What it is called is not important; How it is trained and practiced is.

Krav is hard to tell as well. Because there is no real standard. And lots of one step drills.

 

[jks9199]

Krav Maga has a lot going for it: it's a direct, simple system focused on effectiveness. But it's still subject to the same limitations as any other style; quality of instructor, quality of training partners, proliferation/fad status leading to some questionable certifications and instructorships, splintering within the system, and so on.

As to LE... That's a complicated question. Judo won't hurt you in that regard at all, and will give you some valuable skills for controlling subjects and falling. You'll get thrown, bent, spindled and mutilated, and way too many recruits today have never done anything like that. Hell, I think some of them have never heard a harsh word directed at them. Your TKD training may or may not address that; there's just too much variation in what a TKD class or school consists of and does. But... a lot of that is immaterial. Anything is an improvement on nothing...

The academy will cover some basic, easily learned and remembered skills in defensive tactics instruction. HUGE emphasis on BASIC. I encourage anyone in LE to supplement academy training, and in-service training, because it's really not enough under the realities of what they have to cover, in the time they have available. But what they teach will fit within the force continuum, and agency policies on use of force. So pay attention.

IN the meantime -- do some ride-alongs, and actually learn what LE is really about, at various levels. A fed's job isn't the same as a State trooper, which is different from a local cop. Don't be like one guy I know, who didn't realize until he was in his final semester of college that he didn't really want to be a cop...

 

[kravazon]

I love Krav. I have almost zero training in other martial arts or self defense systems (aside for a very brief stint in Karate when I was a kid).

The place I train in Krav Maga is fantastic. They're always sending their instructors to Los Angeles for instructor training. I've also trained in a different gym in another state (San Francisco, CA) and they had great instructors too.

But I've heard lots of stories of crappy facilities and teachers. It might also be helpful to go to a gym that's recognized by Krav Maga Worldwide and/or Krav Maga Alliance as an official training center. That'll help you weed out some of the fluffier, crappier gyms.

I (with much bias) say it's worth exploring. There are lots of law enforcement officers in my classes. Also! I've heard great things about combining your training with multiple systems. Judo and Krav Maga, in particular. Good luck!

 

[ballen0351]

Krav Maga has a lot going for it: it's a direct, simple system focused on effectiveness. But it's still subject to the same limitations as any other style; quality of instructor, quality of training partners, proliferation/fad status leading to some questionable certifications and instructorships, splintering within the system, and so on.

As to LE... That's a complicated question. Judo won't hurt you in that regard at all, and will give you some valuable skills for controlling subjects and falling. You'll get thrown, bent, spindled and mutilated, and way too many recruits today have never done anything like that. Hell, I think some of them have never heard a harsh word directed at them. Your TKD training may or may not address that; there's just too much variation in what a TKD class or school consists of and does. But... a lot of that is immaterial. Anything is an improvement on nothing...

The academy will cover some basic, easily learned and remembered skills in defensive tactics instruction. HUGE emphasis on BASIC. I encourage anyone in LE to supplement academy training, and in-service training, because it's really not enough under the realities of what they have to cover, in the time they have available. But what they teach will fit within the force continuum, and agency policies on use of force. So pay attention.

IN the meantime -- do some ride-alongs, and actually learn what LE is really about, at various levels. A fed's job isn't the same as a State trooper, which is different from a local cop. Don't be like one guy I know, who didn't realize until he was in his final semester of college that he didn't really want to be a cop...

Couldn't have said it any better. Very good advise here Goarmy

 

[WaterGal]

Firstly, if Krav Maga was ineffective the Israeli's wouldn't still be using it, that said there a lot of instructors who've gone to a weekend seminar and then set up a school... Not going to be any good, yeah? Like any MA, you find the real deal and you've hit the jackpot.

Hah, yeah, my fiance and I were contacted a few months ago by someone offering Krav seminars - they said that after just 3 weekends at his school and a whole bunch of $$$ we could learn Krav well enough to teach it at our school. Wow! Seems totally legit. I wonder how many people did take that guy up on his offer, though.

My only concern with Krav (from a legit source) for police officers is that it's a military combatives program meant to teach a soldier how to beat the **** out of or kill enemies. I think the police should have a different goal, which is to safely subdue disorderly civilians and criminals in order to handcuff them. I think arts with more of a focus on grappling would be a better choice. But on the other hand, any martial art is just a tool, you can choose how to use it.

 

[Hanzou]

I would recommend Judo over Krav simply because it's easier to find good Judo gyms, and Judo tends to be cheaper. There's a lot of bad KM out there unfortunately.

However if you have a good KM gym near you, knock yourself out.

 

[jks9199]

Hah, yeah, my fiance and I were contacted a few months ago by someone offering Krav seminars - they said that after just 3 weekends at his school and a whole bunch of $$$ we could learn Krav well enough to teach it at our school. Wow! Seems totally legit. I wonder how many people did take that guy up on his offer, though.

My only concern with Krav (from a legit source) for police officers is that it's a military combatives program meant to teach a soldier how to beat the **** out of or kill enemies. I think the police should have a different goal, which is to safely subdue disorderly civilians and criminals in order to handcuff them. I think arts with more of a focus on grappling would be a better choice. But on the other hand, any martial art is just a tool, you can choose how to use it.

Krav Maga wasn't designed exclusively for the military. Imi Lichtenfeld put Krav Maga together based on his own experience and training to be a very reliable means of self defense, with military and civilian application. Since then, others have added or adapted it. For example, Krav Maga Worldwide offers it's Force Protection program, which is a packaging of Krav Maga for Law Enforcement. You can get certified to teach THAT SPECIFIC CURRICULUM in a relatively short period; there are 5 levels, and they can generally teach each level in 1 week, and overlap some of them a little, so figure 4 weeks or so. That's an intense 40 hour week of training each time. Like figure 2 shirts a day from sweat, and damn little down time intense. It's not a certification to teach Krav Maga; it's certification to teach a specific Krav Maga based curriculum.

As to goals... A law enforcement officers first goal is to survive. His second is to control and contain the bad guy, eventually restraining or arresting him. Grappling and/or control holds is only part of what a cop needs to know..

 

[Goarmy12charlie]

Firstly, thanks for all of the great replies
Secondly, I have been interested in LE for quite some time, and have done a fair amount of research on the subject. Unfortunately I am only 14 so I cannot go on rede-alongside with my local PD, though I did contact a member of my local SO and he is willing to take me on a tour of the detention center, as well as the 911 dispatch.
Lastly, LE is one of the main reasons I am taking TKD, along with everyday self-defense (obviously) and physical fitness.
Oh, and recently at a class for the final 15 minutes or so my instructor allowed us (in pairs) one at a time to do a jujitsu/wrestling style of fighting just so we could try it out, and that seemed pretty cool (I was decent at it)

 

[jks9199]

Is there an Explorer Post or similar youth program available to you? They're often good ways to get your foot in the door and learn about the realities of police work.

 

[drop bear]

Firstly, thanks for all of the great replies
Secondly, I have been interested in LE for quite some time, and have done a fair amount of research on the subject. Unfortunately I am only 14 so I cannot go on rede-alongside with my local PD, though I did contact a member of my local SO and he is willing to take me on a tour of the detention center, as well as the 911 dispatch.
Lastly, LE is one of the main reasons I am taking TKD, along with everyday self-defense (obviously) and physical fitness.
Oh, and recently at a class for the final 15 minutes or so my instructor allowed us (in pairs) one at a time to do a jujitsu/wrestling style of fighting just so we could try it out, and that seemed pretty cool (I was decent at it)

If you wanted to get clever with the after class wrestling. Try shoot boxing. Which is essentially wrestling with punches using boxing gloves.

Which will give you an idea of how they fit together.

For me with security work I am not really supposed to punch back. So the shoot boxing gives me a chance to practice takedowns and pins a bit.

 

[Goarmy12charlie]

If you wanted to get clever with the after class wrestling. Try shoot boxing. Which is essentially wrestling with punches using boxing gloves.

Which will give you an idea of how they fit together.

For me with security work I am not really supposed to punch back. So the shoot boxing gives me a chance to practice takedowns and pins a bit.

Yeah I'll check that out;maybe there's one in my area

 

[drop bear]

Yeah I'll check that out;maybe there's one in my area

You could just do that in class with your friends.

 

[Goarmy12charlie]

You could just do that in class with your friends.

Oh, okay. That makes sense.