if so, guess what: you're attracted to your own sex. you are, in effect, stating that you are just as attracted to your own sex as the opposite, but you made the choice to be heterosexual. just thought you'd like to know.
jf
jf
do you think being gay is a choice?
- Thread starter jarrod
- Start date
Phoenix44
Master of Arts
Let's see...
Second class citizenship.
Denial of rights and privileges everyone else has.
Public insult.
The Closet.
Family derision.
Excommunication.
Fear of physical violence.
Yeah, I think people would choose that...
Actually, no, I think sexual orientation is innate.
Second class citizenship.
Denial of rights and privileges everyone else has.
Public insult.
The Closet.
Family derision.
Excommunication.
Fear of physical violence.
Yeah, I think people would choose that...
Actually, no, I think sexual orientation is innate.
As with many aspects of their personality, a person can choose to control, suppress or re-direct their sexual proclivities but I do think that to a very large extent those fundamental drives are 'hard coded'.
Some socialisation, on the 'suppression' side of the equation at least, plays a role I'd guess but, in the end, it's a trait that must have some survival value for the species as it's still there in the gene-pool. That applies across the spectrum of life on Earth too - there are homosexual seagulls, whales, lions, wilderbeast ...
Sadly, religion has demonised the trait and it has become socially marginalised and persecuted as a result.
Some socialisation, on the 'suppression' side of the equation at least, plays a role I'd guess but, in the end, it's a trait that must have some survival value for the species as it's still there in the gene-pool. That applies across the spectrum of life on Earth too - there are homosexual seagulls, whales, lions, wilderbeast ...
Sadly, religion has demonised the trait and it has become socially marginalised and persecuted as a result.
I was looking at this a little while ago... making assessments of who's good looking and who's not... (Beckham had a HORRIBLE suit that needs to be burned)... does this make me Gay?
http://omg.yahoo.com/photos/the-25-hottest-hunks-in-hollywood/2450?nc
I think not!
Alot of people are going to hate/ding/disagree with me on this but, I feel strongly that it's a choice... straight down the line. We may not always understand the choices we make or even the reasons why but we find more comfort with it either way. The reasons are varied of course and some go deep but it's still a decision that one makes over time or on the spur of the moment.
:idunno: sorry, but that's my take on it.
http://omg.yahoo.com/photos/the-25-hottest-hunks-in-hollywood/2450?nc
I think not!
Alot of people are going to hate/ding/disagree with me on this but, I feel strongly that it's a choice... straight down the line. We may not always understand the choices we make or even the reasons why but we find more comfort with it either way. The reasons are varied of course and some go deep but it's still a decision that one makes over time or on the spur of the moment.
:idunno: sorry, but that's my take on it.
I agree. Certainly, there's no evidence to support the notion that it's a 'choice' in any common sense of the term, and much evidence that it's largely inborn and becomes 'set' by the time a child is around 5 years old or so. Yes, nurture likely has a role and yes, you can go against your nature--as Richard Dawkins said, men defy their genes every time they use a condom--but the evidence for a biological component is absolutely convincing, including twin studies and other findings.
I personally believe the same (though reasoning in terms of survival of the species is always suspect), but it isn't clearly so. Some common traits are side-effects of the whole genetic system that inheritance is based upon (e.g., color-blindness). They stay in the gene pool because while something like color vision is valuable, the process isn't perfect.
Yet, it's almost unheard-of for a homosexual to concur with the statement that he or she made a conscious choice to be attracted to others of the same sex. (Why would a person make such a choice if he or she didn't already have such a predilection? What benefits would it entail if it satisfied no internal need?) Choosing to engage in homosexual sex is a choice, but one doesn't choose to want to do so anymore than one chooses to want to have chocolate ice cream be one's favorite flavor.
Phoenix44
Master of Arts
If you assume that sexual orientation is a choice, then it implies that all of us have the ability to choose which gender we find attractive. Do you think that if you really wanted to, then you could become sexually excited by someone of your own gender? If you tried really, really hard, in a Herculean, black belt effort, could you choose to be "turned on" by another guy? If someone offered you $50 million to switch your orientation--not perform the act, but actually switch your ability to become aroused by the opposite to the same sex--could you do it?
Because, if not, then why would you assume that anyone else could choose their sexual orientation? Are they any better at making such a choice than you are? Are they more determined than you?
Logically, if it's a human trait to choose sexuality, then it implies any one of us should be able to do it.
Because, if not, then why would you assume that anyone else could choose their sexual orientation? Are they any better at making such a choice than you are? Are they more determined than you?
Logically, if it's a human trait to choose sexuality, then it implies any one of us should be able to do it.
- Thread Starter
- #8
i agree. we all make choices as to how to act on our sexuality, but we seldom if ever choose that proclivity. environmental factors play a part as well, but once those are ingrained there is really nothing you can do about it.
ma-caver, i do disagree with you, but i also admire your ability to express an unpopular opinion. let me ask you, do you think that you chose to be straight, & that you could have just as easily chosen to be gay?
jf
Xue Sheng
All weight is underside
I use to work with a guy that was convinced it was a choice that is right up until the time he was sitting at my desk and a woman walked by who was a lesbian and told everyone she was. He made the statement “she just hasn’t been with the right man yet, that’s the only reason she’s a lesbian” To which I responded, “Then by that same logic you are only heterosexual because you haven’t been with the right man yet” He thought about it for a second and then said “umm…aaaa.. you know… I had not thought of that” I have no idea if he looks at it differently today or not but for a brief moment there he sure did
Xue Sheng
All weight is underside
Yes I can see it now
The average college age kid sitting there thinking...hmmm let me see... become a social outcast with my current piers.... possibly get tossed out of my house by my family...get attacked by people I don't even know....HELL YEAH...
Give me a break it is not a choice it is biology.
BrandonLucas
3rd Black Belt
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I wonder if being straight is a choice as well? I can't help that I'm attracted to women. It's just part of who I am, and I don't think that's something that I could ever change.
Something to think about....
Something to think about....
- Thread Starter
- #12
brandon, i think you really need to pray about this choice you've made. women will lead you to satan. remember adam & eve.
jf
Gordon Nore
Senior Master
Most of my lifetime, and for a hell of a long time before that, there was enormous stigma to being gay. A 'str8-acting' closeted gay, as my father was until he came out in his seventies, suffers the additional humiliation of being privy to hearing what many straights really think. I have a great deal of difficulty believing that people ever chose a status which afforded them second-class citizenship, at best, and which subjected them to violence.
The extent to which people can exercise a choice to surpress their sexuality is another discussiom. Actual suppression of ones own sexual instincts (hetero or otherwise) is a pretty rare item, which is to say, there are very few actual virgins in the world, and I would suspect even the chaste have some outlets.
The extent to which people can exercise a choice to surpress their sexuality is another discussiom. Actual suppression of ones own sexual instincts (hetero or otherwise) is a pretty rare item, which is to say, there are very few actual virgins in the world, and I would suspect even the chaste have some outlets.
Is it a choice?
Yes. And No.
Some people do choose it.
Some people are just wired that way.
Some people like both, but choose to focus on 1. Others enjoy all aspects of their sexuality.
Gentlemen.
Blond, Brunete, Redhead, Asian, Indian, or Black?
Rank em.
My preferences and Yours will be different. Why?
You're wired that way.
Some men don't like oral sex. (I know, it was a shock to me to to read that one).
It's a wiring issue.
The idea that I'm hetro because I haven't met the right man yet, is a good one.
The right person might cause those forces of attraction to reconnect.
I personally doubt it, I like women way too much, but.....who knows.
Yes. And No.
Some people do choose it.
Some people are just wired that way.
Some people like both, but choose to focus on 1. Others enjoy all aspects of their sexuality.
Gentlemen.
Blond, Brunete, Redhead, Asian, Indian, or Black?
Rank em.
My preferences and Yours will be different. Why?
You're wired that way.
Some men don't like oral sex. (I know, it was a shock to me to to read that one).
It's a wiring issue.
The idea that I'm hetro because I haven't met the right man yet, is a good one.
The right person might cause those forces of attraction to reconnect.
I personally doubt it, I like women way too much, but.....who knows.
FearlessFreep
Senior Master
I have I suppose an un-orthodox thought on sexual orientation, being that it is neither inbred nor a 'choice'
My belief is that sexual orientation develops at a young age based on discover of sexual stimulation and the surrounding environment or inputs.
In other words, as a person is discovering their own sexuality, the outside stimulus and exposure that generates or is a part of that discovery will strongly influence the associations that go along with that stimulation, which will strongly influence what we desire to feed those still growing appetites, if you will.
We *like* to be turned on, that's who we are as people. I believe that as we are maturing and growing to understand our bodies and our sexuality, the outside influences that give us those sensations imprint up on us where we will seek out those sensations in the future.
What it comes down to is that it's not really a genetic pre-determination... but neither is it something you choose. Like tastes in clothes and music, it's something that develops as you grow
That may be wrong, but it's a workable theory for me to get by with
My belief is that sexual orientation develops at a young age based on discover of sexual stimulation and the surrounding environment or inputs.
In other words, as a person is discovering their own sexuality, the outside stimulus and exposure that generates or is a part of that discovery will strongly influence the associations that go along with that stimulation, which will strongly influence what we desire to feed those still growing appetites, if you will.
We *like* to be turned on, that's who we are as people. I believe that as we are maturing and growing to understand our bodies and our sexuality, the outside influences that give us those sensations imprint up on us where we will seek out those sensations in the future.
What it comes down to is that it's not really a genetic pre-determination... but neither is it something you choose. Like tastes in clothes and music, it's something that develops as you grow
That may be wrong, but it's a workable theory for me to get by with
Based on my upbringing and life's experiences.... Yes
Wired. Or in my opinon, short circuited, in that their wiring doesn't mature as they do.
I may be wrong, but I think that if you really think about it, you'll come to the conclusion that you didn't really decide to be straight, unless at one point you were bisexual and decided tht you actually did like women better, you just liked women, no decision, it was just the way you were.
Interesting topic. Of course it's not a conscious decision. Actually, based on my own studies of the mind, I think that being completely straight is the result of social conditioning. To back this up would be all those older civilizations where homosexual relations were considered not only normal, but sometimes even preferable. In Japan, for instance, Samurai did not trust their wives and often did not truly love them. Instead, love was felt between men more often. Women were for sex and other things considered female duties.
How a person becomes homosexual in a society that frowns upon it, I'm not sure about. However, I really believe that social insecurities and teachings of homosexuality being wrong is mostly based in religion. I don't like religion at all, and often find it funny that people who are atheist still cling to the views bestowed upon modern society by the church.
Homosexuality cannot be anymore a choice for homosexuals than being straight is a choice by me. I don't take modern social views at all and think a more bisexual society would have less tension in it. But in this world, people find any reason they can to hate and judge. There has to be a direction for their fingers to point.
How a person becomes homosexual in a society that frowns upon it, I'm not sure about. However, I really believe that social insecurities and teachings of homosexuality being wrong is mostly based in religion. I don't like religion at all, and often find it funny that people who are atheist still cling to the views bestowed upon modern society by the church.
Homosexuality cannot be anymore a choice for homosexuals than being straight is a choice by me. I don't take modern social views at all and think a more bisexual society would have less tension in it. But in this world, people find any reason they can to hate and judge. There has to be a direction for their fingers to point.
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