Do You Like Transfer Students?

[dancingalone]

I generally don't at my goju-ryu karate dojo. Most students who came in with prior experience do so from another martial art entire from goju-ryu karate, and it is a difficult transition for them to make. Most do not stick around for any length of time at all.

Just got a couple of brothers, both black belts, join my church class however. They've been studying something called Chong Sil Tae Kwon Do. Oddly enough I find myself a little excited to find out what they've been studying here to now.

 

[Earl Weiss]

They typicaly fall into a couple of groups. Some who I have to wonder what the heck they did to be awarded any type of rank.

Some who are ITF and looking like for an ITF instructor. Their typical reaction is they feel at home. A noteable exception are some hard core guys from what we used to call easten block countries who had harder training than most any american would stand for (Drilled on basics forever and workouts geared for 18-25 year old studs) and have tunnel vision about their instructor walking on water. After a few months I get most to loosen up.

 

[Brian R. VanCise]

I personally absolutely love it when new students come in from another system! They seem to appreciate what we do even more and I appreciate their previous experience provided they had a good teacher!

 

[terryl965]

I sometime do and sometimes I do not, sometimes I am like everyone else and wonder who they learned from. I will exceptanybody but that does not mean I will except them at there rank.

 

[Blindside]

I don't mind transfer students, heck, without them I pretty much wouldn't have a class at all, I've got guys with backgrounds in judo, karate, hapkido, wing chun, one of the older "Korean karate" systems, kenpo, krav maga, and aiki-jutsu in my group. There are certainly some habits that I wind up having to train out and that can be a challenge, but the those same students usually have a well developed body knowledge so they pick up new information faster.

It may be a function of a student whose previous experience is too similar to what you do that it is difficult to make the relatively small adjustment between the arts, say between some karate systems and TKD. Do you have the same problems if the student was a student of Judo? I had a guy at a seminar last weekend that had studied another FMA for years and he was completely flummoxed for about 3/4 of the seminar on our footwork and striking methodology because it was too close to his muscle memory but just different enough that he was having a heck of a time consciously shifting it.

 

[dancingalone]

It may be a function of a student whose previous experience is too similar to what you do that it is difficult to make the relatively small adjustment between the arts, say between some karate systems and TKD. Do you have the same problems if the student was a student of Judo? I had a guy at a seminar last weekend that had studied another FMA for years and he was completely flummoxed for about 3/4 of the seminar on our footwork and striking methodology because it was too close to his muscle memory but just different enough that he was having a heck of a time consciously shifting it.

I do indeed have better luck with people who came from something like BJJ joining my karate class than a striking system like TKD.

The strikers think they understand because outwardly the techniques look the same, but there are less visible concepts like rooting and pelvic tucking and framework that they've never been exposed to. And usually their existing technique has physical 'flaws' that might be correct or acceptable in their previous system, yet is a significant problem in goju-ryu karate.

 

[Stac3y]

My transfers are usually from other instructors within my school, since we are so big. Some I love, others make me nuts. Depends on the personality and style of the other instructor. I especially dislike getting kids from instructors who are more casual than I am. It's harder to get them into the swing of a more disciplined class than it is to get new white belts into it. I have other complaints as well, but best not to air them in public.

 

[Omar B]

As a kid I moved around a lot so if there was not a Seido karate school I would go to Kyokushin. I never had much of a problem (since they are both pretty much the same). Adjusting to Choi Kwang Do from a very hard, linear Japanese system to a much softer, circular Korean system was a huge shift for me. It was very frustrating and I almost quit a few more times than I would want to admit. But my mother's office was across the street from the dojang so I had all the time in the world to adjust.

My CKD instructors were a lot more loose and less huge disciplinarians than my Seido/Kyokushin instructors, I took this freedom and ran with it. Got lazy because I didn't have anyone behind me with a cane. Ended up failing a belt test, never happened to me before or since. It was one of those turning points for a teen when you realize that you gotta do it for yourself.

 

[ATC]

I love it when we get transfer students. I get to test myself on so many levels.

New students give you an opportunity to test you teaching skills as well as people skills. They most likely still have a connection/bond with someone they have grown to trust. It is important to understand that they may have been taught very differently, and that you cannot just change them in one day if they were. To do so would be ripping at that trust and bond that may have been built over years, and no likes that. It would be like someone telling you not to trust your parents.

With transfer students you have to really prove what you are teaching, and if you don't know or don’t have answers for what and why it is you are doing then they won't open to your ways and leave. You don't want to ever tell them that what they have learned is wrong but rather focus on what they are now being taught and why.

Example: If a Karate person joined my TKD dojang and I saw that the sidekicks were done differently, I would never say that it was wrong. I would instead only teach our way of doing it. I would also explain the reason for why we do it this way. I would keep the focus on what we are trying to do only. Never saying that what they did was wrong, because it really is not wrong. It is simply a technique that we don't use. By doing this, I never put down or disrespect someone that they may hold in high regards, and hope that they now view me in the same light.

 

[dancingalone]

With transfer students you have to really prove what you are teaching, and if you don't know or don’t have answers for what and why it is you are doing then they won't open to your ways and leave. You don't want to ever tell them that what they have learned is wrong but rather focus on what they are now being taught and why.

Example: If a Karate person joined my TKD dojang and I saw that the sidekicks were done differently, I would never say that it was wrong. I would instead only teach our way of doing it. I would also explain the reason for why we do it this way. I would keep the focus on what we are trying to do only. Never saying that what they did was wrong, because it really is not wrong. It is simply a technique that we don't use. By doing this, I never put down or disrespect someone that they may hold in high regards, and hope that they now view me in the same light.

Normally I am a live and let live kind of guy about technique variance, but I'm actually talking about some much different than small differences or meaningless stylistic looks.

In Goju, for example,, if you don't learn to tuck in your pelvis as you move, you will NEVER learn to stand and then move in a stable fashion. The problem compounds itself the further and further one progresses. One will be much more susceptible to sweeps, to being put off-balance from a pull, from taking a kick flush on the hip or a punch in the gut, etc. The foundation of stability starts with this one 'simple' thing that I teach on Day 1 to my students. And missing this key concept would indeed be 'wrong', at least when we are talking about studying Goju.

And there are more examples....The point is that not all styles are the same, even when they ostensibly have common techniques like front kicks or reverse punches.

 

[ATC]

Normally I am a live and let live kind of guy about technique variance, but I'm actually talking about some much different than small differences or meaningless stylistic looks.

In Goju, for example,, if you don't learn to tuck in your pelvis as you move, you will NEVER learn to stand and then move in a stable fashion. The problem compounds itself the further and further one progresses. One will be much more susceptible to sweeps, to being put off-balance from a pull, from taking a kick flush on the hip or a punch in the gut, etc. The foundation of stability starts with this one 'simple' thing that I teach on Day 1 to my students. And missing this key concept would indeed be 'wrong', at least when we are talking about studying Goju.

And there are more examples....The point is that not all styles are the same, even when they ostensibly have common techniques like front kicks or reverse punches.

The same still applies. But it seems that these transfer students from other systems need to be white belts when coming over to your style or system. And as you did when explaining to me you will need to do the same with them. Explain that they don't have the base concepts to understand some things and that they can only get those concept by starting at the begining.

You can also explain that they should progress much faster as there are skills that they have developed that should help with the progress. Explain that it is not their technique but new concepts that are needed.

If they still don't understand then you show them. Personal demonstrations done on the student works wonders. It is a way to prove yourself. Best opportuninty given.

 

[dancingalone]

The same still applies. But it seems that these transfer students from other systems need to be white belts when coming over to your style or system. And as you did when explaining to me you will need to do the same with them. Explain that they don't have the base concepts to understand some things and that they can only get those concept by starting at the begining.

You can also explain that they should progress much faster as there are skills that they have developed that should help with the progress. Explain that it is not their technique but new concepts that are needed.

If they still don't understand then you show them. Personal demonstrations done on the student works wonders. It is a way to prove yourself. Best opportuninty given.

Sure!

But this thread was about whether we liked having transfer students or not rather than the difficulties integrating them. :ultracool Of course, if we all want to transmute the thread and start discussing it, I'm game.

Back to my original post, I am interested in learning what the heck Chong Sil TKD is. From a quick google, it seems to be something created right here in the good USA.

 

[ATC]

Sure!

But this thread was about whether we liked having transfer students or not rather than the difficulties integrating them. :ultracool Of course, if we all want to transmute the thread and start discussing it, I'm game.

Back to my original post, I am interested in learning what the heck Chong Sil TKD is. From a quick google, it seems to be something created right here in the good USA.

Yes, I understand. I only was stating why I like them. Because of the teaching. As for Chong Sil TKD I have no idea.

 

[ATC]

...Back to my original post, I am interested in learning what the heck Chong Sil TKD is. From a quick google, it seems to be something created right here in the good USA...

Also did a Google search and from what I can tell, it is an offspring of the ATA. The founder of the CST was a regional VP for the ATA.
http://www.choongsil.com/html/history.html

Not sure if there is another that may differ from this.

 

[jks9199]

I personally absolutely love it when new students come in from another system! They seem to appreciate what we do even more and I appreciate their previous experience provided they had a good teacher!

I agree; new students, whether truly novices or bringing past training, bring new energy and interest. If they've trained elsewhere, and chosen us, we know that they're really interested in learning what we teach. And they bring new points of view and new insights with them.

 

[Phenix_Rider]

It may be a function of a student whose previous experience is too similar to what you do that it is difficult to make the relatively small adjustment between the arts, say between some karate systems and TKD. Do you have the same problems if the student was a student of Judo? I had a guy at a seminar last weekend that had studied another FMA for years and he was completely flummoxed for about 3/4 of the seminar on our footwork and striking methodology because it was too close to his muscle memory but just different enough that he was having a heck of a time consciously shifting it.

I have some personal experience there. My new school does nearly all the same forms as my old school. Just slightly different. Little things like hand position and moving between double blocks/strikes. Instead of moving hands out from the shoulder and back, they move in to the stomach and ear and back out. And then they put IMO too much emphasis on spinning, jumping kicks... but nothing I can do about that. just work harder to learn the new way.

 

[risingfire]

I will say this. Speaking AS a transfer student it can get confusing in the sense of rank. I think that if you transfer from another TKD school, and they are credible, you should have to prove yourself. This is what I am doing. I started at white but at my first testing due to by sparring, forms, and breaking...along with additude, I was able to go up 4 ranks. I had to know all the reqired forms and do them the way the school wanted, as well as terminology. The school will match my old rank but again, I have to prove it through ability, what they deem the best. Its a great ride and I bring my own unique spin which helps others in step sparring, as well as free sparring.