Do you hold back when sparring if...

[Lynne]

you are a male and your partner is a female? Do you only hold back if you are sparring a newbie (orange belt)? Do you hold back with any lower ranks, age, size, sex, etc.?

 

[michaeledward]

Yes.

Absolutely.

I am not very experienced as sparring. I have been working at this portion of kenpo for only a year or so. But, I am now a black belt, and one of the oldest persons attending the regular sparring class.

I see my role in sparring class as a 'trainer'. I allow those in class, usually much younger and lower rank, to develop their skills on me.

Last week, I was working with a junior brown belt. This young lady would throw a jab with her front hand, and follow through, dropping it across her body and down. After recognizing this pattern, I told her that every time she does this, I am going to jab her head, right over her dropped guard. This eventually got her following her jab with an outward block. My point was not to hit her, but to help her appreciate where she creates openings for her opposition.

I attempt to find a similar lesson for all the persons I spar with; giving them an opportunity to learn.



Now, we occassionally have an adult sparring class. And in these situations, I mostly just try to stay alive.

 

[Lynne]

Thanks for the reply, Michael.

I think you have a great attitude. For the most part, this is what I see in my Dojang, more experienced members teaching younger members how to spar. There are exceptions though.

I've observed the fighting to be much more aggressive in the sparring classes. Most orange belts don't attend them, though a few do.

 

[Blindside]

you are a male and your partner is a female? Do you only hold back if you are sparring a newbie (orange belt)? Do you hold back with any lower ranks, age, size, sex, etc.?

As an instructor my job is to push the student not obliterate them. I wouldn't learn anything by steamrolling them and they wouldn't learn either. Age, rank, sex don't matter, if I am better, I hold back.

When someone is my equal we have fun and all the tricks come out. When someone is my better I just try to give them something to remember me by.

Lamont

 

[Blindside]

I've observed the fighting to be much more aggressive in the sparring classes. Most orange belts don't attend them, though a few do.

How do you fight outside of the sparring class?

Lamont

 

[Lynne]

Thanks, Lamont.

I'm keeping all this in mind for the day I get to spar.

A few times I've gotten to do one-on-one kicking with green, red, or black belts (I'm a white belt - three weeks training so far) and they were so helpful, constantly giving me tips, and keeping me encouraged (to keep moving and kicking).

It's good to know that doesn't change.

I guess it would depend on the school though, whether they had camaraderie. Luckily, ours is like one big family.

 

[Kacey]

you are a male and your partner is a female? Do you only hold back if you are sparring a newbie (orange belt)? Do you hold back with any lower ranks, age, size, sex, etc.?

Yes, to all of the above. I spar individuals - not belts. Also, the pace of the match is set by the junior, and as some of them become less junior they discover how much the seniors have been holding back after being repeatedly kicked in the elbow! :lol:

 

[Lynne]

How do you fight outside of the sparring class?

Lamont

Only black club belt members or black belts are allowed to take sparring classes. (So, a motivated white belt could take sparring classes if they wanted to.)

Twice a month, we have sparring as part of our regular class curriculum. So, two weeks out of a month we do sparring during class (so if one attends twice a week, that's 4 classes of sparring).

In sparring, people don their sparring gear, partner up and do (one-minute rounds - I think it's one minute). They do several rotations, usually three. Last Saturday, we did 5 or 6...thought I'd die.

I'm a white belt, so I can only do one-on-one kicking (exchanges, no contact). During one-on-one we (white belts, yellow belts, and upper ranks without sparring gear) are really working on speed, moving in a circle and exchanging kicks as fast as we can.

 

[Lynne]

Yes, to all of the above. I spar individuals - not belts. Also, the pace of the match is set by the junior, and as some of them become less junior they discover how much the seniors have been holding back after being repeatedly kicked in the elbow! :lol:

I can imagine...ouch. A humbling experience for sure.

I've seen one black belt male knock two women flat on their backs. One of them might have been knocked out. She was rather dazed and was saying, "What? wha...?" He'd punched both of them in the side of their head, snapping their heads pretty hard. Honestly, I hope my daughter or myself doesn't end up sparring with him. My daughter is in black belt club so it's inevitable she'll get paired up with him sometime. Really, I was surprised he didn't hold back a bit more. It wasn't a competition.

I really enjoy the one-on-one kicking if I get paired up with a green belt or above. I get lots of tips and encouragement, and corrections, too.

 

[jks9199]

you are a male and your partner is a female? Do you only hold back if you are sparring a newbie (orange belt)? Do you hold back with any lower ranks, age, size, sex, etc.?

I adjust my sparring to my opponent. When I fight a student, I shape what I do to what I want them to work on, and what they need to learn. When I fight someone closer to my level -- then we can work with each other more. But, I adjust based on skill, not gender.

An classmate of mine from years ago recently paid me a very high complement; she said she liked to spar me when we were students together because I was one of the few guys who would just fight her, and not take it easy on her because she was a girl.

 

[Blindside]

I've seen one black belt male knock two women flat on their backs. One of them might have been knocked out. She was rather dazed and was saying, "What? wha...?" He'd punched both of them in the side of their head, snapping their heads pretty hard. Honestly, I hope my daughter or myself doesn't end up sparring with him. My daughter is in black belt club so it's inevitable she'll get paired up with him sometime. Really, I was surprised he didn't hold back a bit more. It wasn't a competition.

I'm not saying this is what was going on, without seeing it I have no idea, but sometimes "pushing someone" involves more than teaching technique; it involves spirit and willpower. You push the student until they are tired, hurt them so they are fighting through pain, so the student has to draw on those deep reserves. Pop them so they have to fight through getting rocked. This will look intense, it will look ugly, and at the end it will probably look pretty one sided. We do this to our brown/black belt students, and it gets done to us. So the guy may be a jerk, or maybe he was teaching a lesson, or maybe he was a jerk who was teaching a lesson. But this isn't every class, unless the guy/gal is ramping toward their black belt test.

Lamont

 

[CoryKS]

Depends. We have one lady at our school that can throw a kick that will leave you gasping for air. For her, I do not hold back. We have another who basically puts on her gear, goes fetal, and makes a sound like "eeeeeeeeeee". Still haven't figured out what to do with her yet, except dance around until they call for partner change.

 

[Lynne]

I adjust my sparring to my opponent. When I fight a student, I shape what I do to what I want them to work on, and what they need to learn. When I fight someone closer to my level -- then we can work with each other more. But, I adjust based on skill, not gender.

An classmate of mine from years ago recently paid me a very high complement; she said she liked to spar me when we were students together because I was one of the few guys who would just fight her, and not take it easy on her because she was a girl.

It's so great to hear that higher belts/instructors make such an effort to teach the lower ranks. I always wonder if you're making a big sacrifice.

It's true, most women are not going to want an instructor/higher ranking student to make an exception because we're female. We are in the school for the same reason as anyone else: to develop our potential to the fullest. And like you said, jks, and most of the others here, you adjust to what your student can do and what you want them to learn. I can definitely see that with the higher belts in my Dojang.

I will be honest with you and say that most of the women in my Dojang are afraid to go to the sparring classes. But, and that's a big but, they are orange belts, just 6-8 months training. They are allowed to attend sparring classes but I don't know any who are. They have sparring gear and spar in class. The sparring classes are intense and I'm sure they're afraid that the belts lower than black won't be able to hold back or won't hold back. We have one undisciplined guy and that's all it takes to scare.

 

[Lynne]

I'm not saying this is what was going on, without seeing it I have no idea, but sometimes "pushing someone" involves more than teaching technique; it involves spirit and willpower. You push the student until they are tired, hurt them so they are fighting through pain, so the student has to draw on those deep reserves. Pop them so they have to fight through getting rocked. This will look intense, it will look ugly, and at the end it will probably look pretty one sided. We do this to our brown/black belt students, and it gets done to us. So the guy may be a jerk, or maybe he was teaching a lesson, or maybe he was a jerk who was teaching a lesson. But this isn't every class, unless the guy/gal is ramping toward their black belt test.

Lamont

Hey Lamont,

Thank you...that gives me a bit more perspective, actually a lot. Being pushed is good

 

[Blindside]

It's so great to hear that higher belts/instructors make such an effort to teach the lower ranks. I always wonder if you're making a big sacrifice.

It isn't a sacrifice, besides you can develop weak parts of your game on lower ranks, skills that aren't ready for peers. Also beginners pull wacky stuff that advanced student will never do, the beginner doesn't know better that it is "wrong" and it will land it.

Lamont

 

[Lynne]

Depends. We have one lady at our school that can throw a kick that will leave you gasping for air. For her, I do not hold back. We have another who basically puts on her gear, goes fetal, and makes a sound like "eeeeeeeeeee". Still haven't figured out what to do with her yet, except dance around until they call for partner change.

I can tell you what's going on with the "eeeeeeeeeeeeee." She's afraid to spar. She's afraid of getting hurt. And she might not like sparring. I have found a lot of women just don't like it. (They do it and they try hard regardless but they aren't planning on competing.) Could be true for men as well, I don't know.

So, is she not kicking at all? What about blocking? Are you just chasing her around and around the ring? What do the instructors do? The instructors in our school wouldn't let anyone get away with not trying and trying hard. I'm not sure what Master R would do. He'd probably have them drop and do 60 squat thrusts to wake them up.

She probably needs someone to teach her how to spar. Isn't that your job since you're a higher belt ? I assume you do one-on-one kicking in class? I'm just a newbie, but we are learning loads of basic sparring skills through the one-on-one. I have to keep moving in a circular fashion, I have to keep kicking, I have to try and chase down my opponent, and I have to bounce and switch my feet, all as fast I can with integrity of form. It is tiring and it is hard after a few rounds.

I realize there could the emotional thing going on. Do you feel she might start crying if you tell her to block or you'll do X?

 

[Lynne]

It isn't a sacrifice, besides you can develop weak parts of your game on lower ranks, skills that aren't ready for peers. Also beginners pull wacky stuff that advanced student will never do, the beginner doesn't know better that it is "wrong" and it will land it.

Lamont

Oh, I see.

Wacky stuff. Like the teenage orange belt who kept hitting his green belt opponent in the backside with a roundhouse kick . I was sitting in the viewing area watching this kid's first sparring class. I don't know the rules for sparring but when I saw this kid kicking his opponent in the butt cheek, I thought, "What the devil? Are you supposed to do that?" It just didn't look right! My daughter informed that no, you aren't supposed to strike a person on the back of the body, butt cheek or otherwise.

In this case, I imagine the butt-cheek-kicks were more annoying than painful though. *snicker*

 

[JT_the_Ninja]

Yes.

Absolutely.

I am not very experienced as sparring. I have been working at this portion of kenpo for only a year or so. But, I am now a black belt, and one of the oldest persons attending the regular sparring class.

I see my role in sparring class as a 'trainer'. I allow those in class, usually much younger and lower rank, to develop their skills on me.

Last week, I was working with a junior brown belt. This young lady would throw a jab with her front hand, and follow through, dropping it across her body and down. After recognizing this pattern, I told her that every time she does this, I am going to jab her head, right over her dropped guard. This eventually got her following her jab with an outward block. My point was not to hit her, but to help her appreciate where she creates openings for her opposition.

I attempt to find a similar lesson for all the persons I spar with; giving them an opportunity to learn.



Now, we occassionally have an adult sparring class. And in these situations, I mostly just try to stay alive.

Same here, especially because I'm a 2nd dan, and pretty much everyone else at the dojang is below me in rank (though often not in height!). I never go so easy that I don't attack, though, so long as I have the breath. The stronger my opponent fights back, the more I come back, though I always keep control. It's too easy to hurt someone in sparring; the skill is in controlling your techniques so you don't, while still demonstrating good technique.

 

[Yossarian]

I think holding back because your opponent is female would be an insult. I usually let my opponent dictate the pace of the sparring, if they are a lower belt I will try and give them a few tips and tricks they can use and point out holes in their defence. You will find higher belts are usually very good at controlling thier strikes so dont worry about sparring them. You are very unlikely to get hurt, the worst you will get will be the odd bump or bruise. Its also very good experience to spar hard contact, you quickly get used to being hit.

 

[Nomad]

you are a male and your partner is a female? Do you only hold back if you are sparring a newbie (orange belt)? Do you hold back with any lower ranks, age, size, sex, etc.?

Absolutely. In class, sparring is a training exercise. Those who for one reason or another (size, aggression, time in training, etc.) are a fair distance below my current level I "take it easy" on. Just as my seniors take it easy on me...

If I get a reasonable response from my training partner, I will increase the intensity a little to push them.

Sparring "full out" in such situations turns it from a learning session into a lesson in humility. And yes, I have seen the latter judiciously applied on occasion when someone's head was getting a little too big and they were starting to think they were top of the heap. The lesson comes across pretty quickly.

Without a tangible reason to do otherwise (as above), a session of me going full out on a much lower belt results in their being intimidated and discouraged and only serves to feed my own ego (which is plenty big enough without that kind of sustenance).

There is an art to modifying your intensity to your opponent so you're going just a little bit harder and faster than they are, and this is where they tend to grow and get better.

Now, going against the same partner in a tournament is a little different. There I want to control the match as much as possible, but am still not particularly interested in humiliating someone. Occasionally, someone I thought was an easy mark has surprised me in the ring.